Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes)

威斯布鲁克将力压哈登拿下NBA常规赛MVP（在考虑完100票中的62票之后）

花了两周时间后，我们的群众线报找出了今年MVP100张第一选票中的62张结果.。没有一个具体的已经公布了的列表，所以我们是通过投票，以及那些有投票权的人自己的微博，访谈，播客，文章和电视广播得知的。

我们预估最终的mvp得分为：

威斯布鲁克522分，哈登456分

第一选票很明显最具有说服力，因为他超出第二选票3分之多。第一选票10分，第二选票7分，第三选票5分，第四选票3分，第五选票1分。

粗略的统计一下NBA常规赛MVP的第一选票分布，得到的结果中威斯布鲁克处在领先位置：

威斯布鲁克：39张第一选票

哈登：18张第一选票

伦纳德：3张第一选票

詹姆斯：2张第一选票

And right now we estimate the MVP race, after 62 first place votes, to be at:

Russell Westbrook: 522

James Harden: 456   

A first-place vote speaks the loudest by carrying a three point margin with it. First is worth 10, second 7, third 5, fourth 3 and fifth 1.

Through a hard count of the NBA MVP votes the first place tally of votes has Westbrook in the lead:

Westbrook: 39 first place votes

Harden: 18 first place votes

Leonard: 3 first place votes

James: 2 first place votes

[–]YoungJebediah 3124 指標 23小時前* 

Excellent time to bring back Durant's MVP speech:

"I know you guys think I forgot Russ. But I could speak all night about Russell. An emotional guy who will run through a wall for me. I don’t take it for granted. There’s days when I just want to tackle you and tell you to snap out of it sometimes, but I know there’s days when you want to do the same thing with me. I love you, man. I love you. A lot of people put unfair criticism on you as a player and I’m the first to have your back, man, though it all. Just stay the person you are. Everybody loves you here. I love you. I thank you so much, man. You make me better. You know, your work ethic, I always want to compete with you. I always want to pull up in the parking lot of the arena, or the practice facility, and if you beat me there I was always upset. I always wanted to outwork you. You set the bar. You set the tone. Thank you so much, man. Thank you. You have a big piece of this. You’re an MVP-caliber player. It’s a blessing to play with you, man."

Please Russ, copy paste this speech and replace it with Spalding.

真是个绝佳的来重温杜兰特MVP演说的时候：

“我知道你们以为我忘记了威少，但是实际上我可以站在这一晚上只谈论威斯布鲁克。他是一个感情真挚的愿意为我撞穿一面墙的人。我不认为这是我理所应得的。有些日子我也真的想把你放倒在地让你清醒清醒赶紧振作起来但我知道肯定有不少的日子里你也想要这样对我。兄弟我爱你，我真的爱你。很多人都对会批评你作为一个运动员的很多所作所为，而不管怎样穿过风风雨雨我是第一个挺你的，兄弟。做你自己就好了，这里的每个人都爱你，我也爱你，还特别的感激你。你让我更好。你知道的，就比如你的敬业精神，我总想跟你竞争，在球馆的停车场我都想要拔起来跳投，或者是在训练场上，如果你打败我我会很沮丧，我还总是会想要比你训练的更努力。你定下了一个标准，一个基调。太谢谢你了兄弟。谢谢你，我的这个MVP有你很大的一份功劳，你是个MVP级别的球员，能跟你打球是上天的保佑。”

威少请你一定要复制粘贴这段话，然后把所有写着威少的地方换成斯伯丁。

（斯伯丁是NBA官方指定用球）

（相关阅读：威少：不开玩笑，篮球是我在场上唯一的朋友

https://voice.hupu.com/nba/2149193.html）

[–][BOS] Isaiah ThomasMarkHoppusJr 203 指標 1 天前 

"I know you guys think I forgot Spal. But I could speak all night about Spalding. An emotional ball who will shoot through a hoop for me. I don’t take it for granted. There’s days when I just want to block you and tell you to get out of here sometimes, but I know there’s days when you want to do the same thing with me. I love you, man. I love you. A lot of people put unfair criticism on you as a ball and I’m the first to have your rebound, man, though it all. Just stay the ball you are. Everybody loves you here. I love you. I thank you so much, man. You make me better. You know, your work ethic, I always want to compete with you. I always want to pull up in the parking lot of the arena, or the practice facility, and if you make it to the hoop from there I was always upset. I always wanted to outwork you. You set the rims. You set the boards. Thank you so much, man. Thank you. You have a big piece of this. You’re an MVP-caliber ball. It’s a blessing to play with you, man."

Tried so hard, and got so feels. :(

“我知道你们以为我忘记了斯伯，但是我实际上可以站在这一晚上只谈论斯伯丁。他感情真挚，愿意为我穿越篮筐。我不认为这是我理所应得的。有些日子我也真的想把一个大帽把你扇飞让你清醒清醒赶紧振作起来，但我知道肯定有不少的日子里你也想要这样对我。兄弟我爱你，我真的爱你。很多人都对会妄加批评你作为一个球的很多所作所为，而不管怎样穿过风风雨雨我是第一个收下你的篮板的人，兄弟。做好一颗球就好了，这里的每个人都爱你，我也爱你，还特别的感激你。你让我更好。你知道的，就比如你的敬业精神，我总想跟你竞争，在球馆的停车场我都想要拔起来跳投，或者是在训练场上，如果你进了篮筐我总会很沮丧，我还总是会想要比你训练的更努力。你定下了篮筐，定下了篮板。太谢谢你了兄弟。谢谢你，我的这个MVP有你很大的一份功劳，你是个MVP级别的球，能跟你打球是上天的保佑。”

我尽力了，也很有感触 :(

[–]MavericksWHITE-IVERSON 46 指標 1 天前 

Spalding, you the real MVP

斯伯丁！你才是真的MVP！

[–]CIark 490 指標 22小時前 

This is literally like when you're trying to deal with a tough breakup that you don't understand then you find an old letter or text from her saying how much you mean to her and then you wana die cus you can't recognize the person she is now and how everything could've gone so wrong and you can't even breathe

But I wouldn't know anything about that.

这真的就像是你试图从一次你不能理解的艰难的分手中走出来。之后你找到了一封她原来写的书信或者是短信，里面都是她在说你对她有多重要。看完你就会很想死，因为你已经不认识她现在成为的这个人是谁，以及事情到底出了多大的岔子，让你难以呼吸。

但这种感觉我是没体会过。

[–]WarriorsBhMhWh 346 指標 21小時前* 

I have a four second voicemail of my ex crying, I didn't know what it was but I heard it one time and fucking broke down. This has nothing to do with this, but I wanted to tell you

Edit: Oh my god. Oh my god. Holy fuck I'm crying for real. I had a really good day at work today and I was doing great, I check Reddit and I see all you people telling me this and that, and oh my god I've never had this many people behind me in this. Thank you so much. Thank you all so so much. Today was one of the toughest days I've ever had. And seeing this has truly made me so happy. I can not thank everyone enough.

我有一段四秒钟的前男（女）友在哭泣的语音消息。我当时不知道那条是啥，但我听了一次就TM崩溃了。这跟帖子没什么关系，就是想告诉各位JRs。

PS：妈呀妈呀，卧槽我这次真的哭了，今天工作很顺利我表现很好，然后一上reddit发现你们告诉我这个那个，我还真的从来没有过这么多人站在我身后支持我。感谢大家，感谢所有人，今天是我人生最难熬的一天了，看到大家对我的支持真的让我超开心。怎么谢你们都谢不够。

[–]CIark 91 指標 1 天前 

Good lord I winced reading that. Can't imagine how shitty that feels. Sorry man

天啦噜，读你这段话的时候我身体都畏缩了一下。难以想象那有多难受，扎心了老铁。

[–]CavaliersFurtherThatElevation 881 指標 23小時前 

Just when I was beginning to forget about KD again.... :(

骑士球迷：就在我开始逐渐忘掉杜兰特的时候……:(

[–]ThunderAedanwolfe 623 指標 23小時前 

Thats what hurts the most this series. If we were down 2-0 with Russ and KD I'd still think we would win in 6.

这是这个系列赛（注：对阵火箭）最伤的地方。如果我们在有威少和杜兰特的时候0-2落后，我觉得我们还是会6场比赛后拿下系列赛的。

[–]New Jersey NetsFrigidevil 223 指標 22小時前 

If you had KD, this would be a second round matchup.

如果你们有杜兰特，这就是个第二轮的对阵了

[–]Suns BandwagonSilverBaretta 905 指標 23小時前 

Well, it's official then. Harden will probably never win MVP.

好了，基本板上钉钉了。哈登可能这辈子都拿不到MVP了。

[–]Supersonicsfootlong_ePeen 829 指標 22小時前 

20 years later when the inside the nba crew is KD Russ and Harden.

"MVPs james!"

20年之后，TNT天团变成了杜兰特，威少和哈登之后。

“MVP是詹姆斯！”

[–]Hawksrewat5 343 指標 21小時前 

That would be the most epic crew

那估计是史上最壮大的演播室阵容了

[–]Rocketsmushroomface 122 指標 1 天前 

Wouldn't last long. KD would bolt for whatever show had the highest ratings.

持续不久的，杜兰特会为跳槽去收视率最高的节目的。

[–]BullsWowbagger1 787 指標 1 天前* 

Who will win best storyline of the year next season ?

I'm thinking Giannis has a chance if the Bucks can finish as the 2 seed.

你们觉得下赛季MVP争夺最有趣的剧情是啥？

我觉得如果雄鹿爬到东部第二的位置的话，阿德托昆博是有机会的。

[–]BucksGuard226Duck 132 指標 1 天前 

God please

雄鹿球迷：苍天求求你。

[–]zxc123zxc123 35 指標 22小時前 

I think so too baring some freak injury like Rose/PG13.

Giannis is fucking real.

Not like "He's all-star franchise guy" real.

Like who runs the league? "Lebron atm and later KD/Stephen/Kawhi then probably AD/Giannis/Buddy'thegod'Hield" real.

我觉得如果他能远离像罗斯和保罗乔治那样的古怪伤病。

阿德托昆博就可以真的搞些大事情了。

不是搞那种“球队的全明星球员”那个级别的事情。

而是谁在统治联盟？“詹姆斯，之后的杜兰特、库里和伦纳德，再之后可能就是戴维斯、阿德托昆博和巴迪-天神-希尔德”这种事情

[–]CavaliersJjab430 1869 指標 1 天前 

harden did everything right and still lost lol

哈登做对了所有事最后还是输了哈哈哈。

[–][HOU] James HardenEhStonedTurtle 1090 指標 1 天前 

Harden gonna average a triple double next year as the #1 seed and have the narrative switch up again :(

哈登明年会场均三双拿下一号种子的位置，然后剧情里他俩的位置就可以置换一下了。

[–][MIA] Dwyane WadeDeja-Vu-Virus 868 指標 1 天前 

"MVP means MOST VALUABLE PLAYER. As you can tell from last year, his team is great. Who cares about his triple doubles, Westbrook already did it. ________ (insert player) is MOST VALUABLE because he's carrying his entire team!"

“MVP意味着最有价值的球员。从去年可以看出，他的球队非常不错。谁会在乎他的三双呢，威斯布鲁克上赛季已经做到过了。__________（插入一个球员名字）是最有价值球员呀，因为他是在扛着自己的全队前进”

[–]Ayyylmaowhat 425 指標 1 天前* 

Like Devin Booker is gonna suddenly explode and carry the Suns to the playoffs and break Wilts 100 point game while Hardens averaging a hard triple double and stepped up his defensive game even more as the 1 seed but Devin Booker takes over the narrative cause of that impossible game and his insane shooting stats that even tilts Curry

Edit: It seems I have made the offseason for a ton of Suns fans

就比如德文布克突然爆发，带领太阳杀进季后赛，打破了张伯伦单场100分的比赛，与此同时在哈登砍下三双、防守升级、拿下头名。就算这样德文布克还是会占据主导地位因为他打出了一场不可思议的比赛以及拿到了压过库里的投篮数据。

PS：好像我这段话让很多太阳球迷的休赛期舒服了很多。

[–]SunsShadoHeart 279 指標 23小時前 

Don't stop

太阳球迷：继续吹，不要停

[–]Wizards Bandwagondunlapc3 346 指標 23 小時前 

Ahhhhh I can see it now....

Harden will avg a 32-13-10 triple dubb next season leading the Rockets to 60+ wins... Draymond will avg 20-8-8-3-3 and win MVP as warriors win 70+ games next seaonn

你这么一说我就懂了……

哈登下赛季场均32+13+10的三双，带领火箭拿到60胜……然后勇士拿下70+胜场，德雷蒙德格林拿到20+8+8+3+3的数据之后赢下MVP

[–]ThunderYodudewhatsupmanbruh 279 指標 22小時前* 

Dude a 20-8-8-3-3 on a 70 win team is one of the best seasons of all-time.

Edit: The only player to ever average 20-8-8-3 was Magic Johnson. Add in the three blocks and no one has even come close.

老铁，在一支70胜的球队里拿到20+8+8+3+3的数据可以说是NBA历史上最伟大的单赛季表现之一了。

PS：惟一一个拿到20+8+8+3的球员是魔术师。再加上三个盖帽的话，就真的从来没有人接近过这个数据。

[–]DCdem 111 指標 1 天前 

Farewell Kevin, now I do what I want

再见吧凯文，现在我终于可以，随心所欲了。

It was pretty clear by the end of the year. Gonna be awkward to accept that MVP award after getting booted out of the first round though.

赛季结束的时候实际上就很清楚了。但季后赛第一轮被踢出去之后再领这个MVP多少都会尴尬吧。

[–]MavericksJoonypoo 1101 指標 1 天前 

Eh it happens =/

小牛球迷：那个……这种事时不时会发生的

[–]Nets Bandwagonbeerusarus 647 指標 1 天前 

at least the mavs won 67 games not 47 lol

最少小牛赢了67场不是47场啊哈哈哈

[–]Rocketsoiducwa 394 指標 23 小時前 

The most frustrating thing is that he lost to his main counterpart in two different standards. He lost to Steph because his team has worse record, amidst having slightly better raw stats. He lose to Westbrook because he has slightly worse raw stats, even his team has better record. I feel like those analytics are just a brunch of hypocrites who vote whoever they like/fit the general narratives.

最令人沮丧的是哈登是在两种不同的标准下输给自己的对手。他输给库里因为球队战绩不如库里，初阶数据稍微好那么一点。他输给威斯布鲁克是因为初阶数据又稍微差了些，哪怕他的球队拿到了更好的战绩。我觉得那些分析师都是一些只选他们喜欢的人或是随主流的小人伪君子。

[–]SunsOutZoned 143 指標 1 天前 

What does Harden have to do to win MVP? :（

哈登到底要干啥才能拿MVP啊？

[–]LakersPlayedYourEyes 18 指標 1 天前 

More triple-doubles! Got to get more of those things!

多拿点三双！必须要多拿点才行！

[–]Deathfromwere 110 指標 1 天前 

Apparently leave HOU go to the Sixers or Nets and average a triple double? :((((

离开火箭去76人或者篮网然后场均三双？:((((

[–]Thunderfettywap 111 指標 1 天前 

Honestly, I think James deserved it more. I'm happy for Russ, but I'm conflicted. There is a good argument for each side here.

说实话，我觉得哈登更配得上这个奖，我为威少感到开心，但是也挺矛盾的。实际上两边都有不错的支持他们的依据。

[–]Rocketsfree_reezy 72 指標 23 小時前 

we need more reasonable people on both sides. I'm happy for Russ but devastated for Harden. He's been on both sides of this MVP argument and lost both.

我们需要两边都多一些这样的理性的人。我为威少感到开心，但是也为哈登感到伤心。MVP争夺的两边他都达到过了，但是两次都输了。

翻译：@ClydeBot

In retrospect, OKC had terrible luck during the Durant era... (self.nba)

回顾历史，雷霆在有杜兰特的时代里，运气真是特别不好……

2010 eliminated by 2010 NBA Champs on a buzzer beater in game 6

2011 eliminated by 2011 NBA Champs in 5 despite leading late in 4 of the games

2012 lose in NBA Finals in 5 despite the first 4 games being single possession games late in the 4th

2013 Westbrook injured game 1 of 1st round, misses rest of playoffs

2014 Ibaka injured in 2nd round of playoffs & misses 1st 2 games of WCF, eliminated by NBA Champs in OT game 6

2015 Durant injured for entire season

2016 3-1 debacle

2010年在系列赛第六场被冠军球队绝杀淘汰。

2011年在至少四场比赛里都在比赛后期握有领先的情况下，被冠军球队5场淘汰。

2012年在总决赛里五场后被干掉，尽管前四场比赛在最后一节后段都是咬得很紧，一次球权左右的差距。

2013年威斯布鲁克第一轮第一场比赛受伤，随即错过剩余的全部季后赛。

2014年伊巴卡第二轮受伤，同时错过了西部决赛的前两场，最终被之后的NBA冠军六场淘汰。

2015年杜兰特赛季报销

2016年3-1领先情况下的崩盘。

[–]RocketsSolar24 416 指標 15小時前 

They should have won in 2016, that wasn't unlucky. It was just a choke.

他们2016年该赢的，这不是不幸运，就是他们突然歇菜了。

[–]dropdatdurkadurk 104 指標 15小時前 

Yeah this is a theme with a number of these exits OP cites

Losing 2011 despite leading 4 games late? Yeah.....whole bunch of not playing well in crunchtime/choking there. That game 4 the most egregious example

2012? Miami repeatedly out executed them the last 5 minutes of games. Game 2, 3 and 4 everytime a big play needed to be made it was Miami who made it not OKC. That's not just some fluke. Game's 3 and 4 combined OKC-Miami was very tight basically that whole 4th quarter but OKC only led for a grand total of about 20 seconds both those games? Why? Everytime a play had to be made, it was Miami not OKC who made it.

2014? Offense doesnt score a single pt the last 2:22 of OT of game 6.

2016? Yeah nothing else to call it but again a choke/collapse

OKC had bad luck. But they also did plenty of collapsing on their own. Hence why Im not really willing to just assume they beat LeBron had they made the Finals in 2011, 2014 or 2016.

几处楼主列出来的地方都有个共同的特征

2011年在四场比赛里都在比赛后期握有领先？……是啊，有太多关键时刻的表现糟糕，突然卡壳的情况出现。那个系列赛的第四场是个最恶劣的典型。

2012年？热火有几次都是在比赛最后五分钟处决了他们。第二场，第三场和第四场，每次需要关键球的时候，打进的总是热火，而不是雷霆。这可不是什么偶然，第三场和第四场雷霆热火对阵，比赛第四节的时候比分咬的都很紧，但是那两场加起来雷霆也只领先了大概20秒钟。为啥呢？因为每次需要关键球的时候，打进球的都是热火，不是雷霆。

2014年？第六场加时赛最后的2分22秒，进攻端一分都没得。

2016年？除了崩盘、歇菜这种词，没什么好说的了。

雷霆运气是不够好，但他们自己崩盘的次数也足够多了。因此我也不愿意觉得他们如果在2011，2014，2016年进总决赛的话能击败詹姆斯。

[–]RocketsSolar24 53 指標 15小時前* 

I would put it more on Klay solely going absolutely fucking insane from 3 during the end of the 3rd in game 6.

11-18 from 3 iirc for Klay alone.

Curry was only 6-14 from 3 that game which was good, but Klay saved that series.

我会说那是因为第六场比赛第三节的时候，汤普森的三分完全投开了。

我没记错的话，就汤普森一个人就投出了18中11的三分。

库里那场比赛三分14中6，也还不错，但是汤普森挺身而出拯救了整个系列赛。

[–]NBAlolathon234[S] 54 指標 15小時前 

It was a choke, but Thompson going nuclear in game 6 was absolute luck. If that doesn't happen, the series ends in OKC that night. He had BY FAR the best game of his playoff career and it was on the road in an elimination game. Him catching fire was absolute luck as it happens maybe every 20 or so games he plays in. Timing is everything.

Hell that game was almost over in the 1st half when OKC went up 15 or so. It looked like a carbon copy from games 3 & 4, but Thompson started throwing darts.

是有卡壳的情况出现，但是汤普森在第六场超神绝对是运气。如果他没有暴走的话，那个晚上，系列赛就要在俄克拉荷马结束了。他突然开火绝对是运气，估计这种情况发生的概率就是个20场左右才一次。这个时机非常关键。

那场比赛在雷霆上半场领先15分上下的时候几乎就结束了。看起来像是第三场和第四场的完美复制一样，但是接着汤普森就开始疯狂的进球了。

[–]ThunderDirectorPhiICoulson 21 指標 15小時前 

This is all true and I agree with you, except the Warriors being down 15 doesn't mean the game's over. Ever.

你说的都很对，我也同意你说的话，但勇士落后15分意味着比赛结束了？不存在的，从来就没存在过。

[–]RaptorsYDJ987 8 指標 9小時前 

How could you discredit Klay by calling an amazing performance lucky? The guy knew it was the most important game of his career, and he played hard. It's not like he aimed to miss lol. Some luck sure, but "absolute luck" is ridiculous

你怎么能说汤普森那样惊艳的表现是运气好呢？他知道这是他职业生涯最重要的比赛了，于是他打得很努力。难道说他是瞄着篮筐外头，然后球还是都进了？哈哈哈，是有一点运气吧，但是“绝对都是运气”就太扯淡了。

[–]pimpcakes 13 指標 13小時前 

What was it when Roberson was outshooting Curry from 3 early in the series? People never remember stuff like that. Danny Green being the best three point shooter in NBA history for 5 games in the 2013 Finals comes to mind as well.

那个系列赛前面几场罗伯森三分投的比库里准的时候怎么没有人说是运气好？人们总是记不住这种东西。丹尼格林在2013年总决赛的五场比赛里化身NBA历史上最强的三分射手也是一样的情况。

[–]Thunderhere_for_the_lols 38 指標 15小時前 

So many of those shots were like 180 no scope with a hand in his face. Probably the single most impressive shooting game Ive ever seen. Just came at the worst time (for an entire franchise)

雷霆蜜：那些个三分里，有太多是面前180度完全没有视野，一只手罩着他的脸。可能是我见过的最令人印象深刻的单场投篮表演了。他的手感只是来的太不是时候了（对于整个球队来说）

[–]RaptorsDeKobe-DeBryant 98 指標 15小時前 

2011 eliminated by 2011 NBA Champs in 5 despite leading late in 4 of the games

Not unlucky.

2012 lose in NBA Finals in 5 despite the first 4 games being single possession games late in the 4th

Not unlucky.

2016 3-1 debacle

Not unlucky.

“2011年在至少四场比赛里都在比赛后期握有领先的情况下，被冠军球队5场淘汰。”

不是不走运

“2012年在总决赛里五场后被干掉，尽管前四场比赛在最后一节后段都咬得很紧，双方之间就是一次球权左右的差距。”

不是不走运

“2016年3-1领先情况下的崩盘。”

不是不走运

[–]SpursBoom9001 28 指標 15小時前 

Letting teams come back to beat them in games is not a sign of bad luck. It's a sign of their #1 criticism which was when it came down to crunch they only even used ISO WB and KD. Which was easy to defend and made them go scoreless. That isn't bad luck, you need to be able to finish games.

让别的球队在很多比赛里逆转然后击败他们可不是运气不好的体现，是对于他们在关键时刻只知道让威少和杜兰特单打这种策略最大的批评。这样很容易被对方针对防守，让雷霆得不到分。这可不是运气不好，你需要有能力终结比赛。

[–][SAS] LaMarcus AldridgeHereComesJustice 57 指標 15小時前 

That's not all luck, that's not being good enough

这跟运气一点关系都没有，就是他们不够好。

[–]CavaliersTheBigEgg23 34 指標 15小時前 

Writing off the 3-1 debacle as bad luck is a cop-out. Same for single-possession games... did they have the best luck? Of course not. But they also simply weren't good enough at the right times as well.

把3-1的崩盘归做是运气不好这根本站不住。还有那些一次球权差距的比赛……他们运气非常好么？当然也不是。但是他们就是在合适的时机上，表现的不够好。

[–]Lakerssketchquark 10 指標 11小時前 

Apparently games are decided by luck if they aren't blowouts.

那些没打花的比赛这样看来显然都是由运气决定的咯。

[–]johncenatbh 15 指標 15小時前 

2010 eliminated by 2010 NBA Champs on a buzzer beater in game 6

2011 eliminated by 2011 NBA Champs in 5 despite leading late in 4 of the games

2012 lose in NBA Finals in 5 despite the first 4 games being single possession games late in the 4th

2016 3-1 debacle

Those are not because they were unlucky, the injuries yes

2010年在系列赛第六场被冠军球队绝杀淘汰。

2011年在至少四场比赛里都在比赛后期握有领先的情况下，被冠军球队5场淘汰。

2012年在总决赛里五场后被干掉，尽管前四场比赛在最后一节后端都是咬得很紧，一次球权左右的差距。

2016年3-1领先情况下的崩盘。

[–]Warriors Bandwagongrpocz 10 指標 15小時前 

2012 Finals was played in a 2-3-2 format so what started 1-1 became 4-1

2012年决赛是以2-3-2的赛程打的，所以1-1的开局最后变成了4-1。

[–]Thundermisterzadir 7 指標 13小時前 

That format didn't help us at all. Not making excuses at all -- Heat prob still would've won it all, but our guys were in desperate need of some home crowd support. 3 straight road games against that heat team was brutal.

那个赛程完全没有帮到我们。我不是在找借口或是怎样——热火可能还是会夺冠，但是我们的球员真的迫切需要主场观众的支持。连续三场客场对阵热火实在是太残忍了。

[–][TOR] Delon Wrightredsnake1377 7 指標 14小時前 

i wouldn't call KD, Harden, Westbrook, and Ibaka falling to them "unlucky". Harden was the 3rd pick and the grizzlies picked HASHEEM THABEET ahead of him.

我不会把杜兰特，哈登，威斯布鲁克和伊巴卡被选去了雷霆说成是“运气不好”。哈登是第三顺位，而灰熊在他前面选到的是塔比特。

[–]Warriorsbarktowork 20 指標 15小時前 

People always forget OKC blew a 3-1 lead.

人们总是会忘记雷霆葬送了3-1的领先。

[–]Warriorsdirty30curry 29 指標 15小時前 

Lol what a bunch of losers

Oh wait

勇蜜：真是一群失败的人

噫不对，稍等一下。

[–]WarriorsPM_ME_UR_THONG_N_ASS 13 指標 14小時前 

Harrison Barnes has elevated his game significantly this season. I'm sure he won't do us wrong like last year.

哈里森巴恩斯这赛季很明显提升了自己的比赛能力。我确定他不会像去年那样坑我们了。

[–]Cavaliers BandwagonSakiz105 11 指標 14小時前 

having the summer off really worked wonders for him.He grew taller stronger and his mid range game is fantastic now.No idea why he grew a shitty ass goatee tho

休息了一整个夏天对他有神奇的功效，长高了长壮了，现在他的中距离也是非常的棒。但我咋都想不明白他为啥要留那个烂透了的山羊胡。

[–]Supersonicsexasperated_dreams 13 指標 15小時前 

they could have been a dynasty tbh

说实话他们本来可以成为一个王朝的。

[–]KingsDemonicDimples 6 指標 15小時前 

They also made a ton of personnel decisions that doomed their chances.

他们同时也做出了很多糟糕的人事决定断送了他们的机会。

[–][CHI] Michael JordanBlackMathNerd 14 指標 15小時前 

If Klay doesn't activate deadeye and make every shot, OKC plays the Cavs in the finals.

That said, nah the Thunder have a history of at times failing to execute in critical moments.

如果汤普森没有开启神枪手模式后球球入网，雷霆就会在决赛对阵骑士了。

虽然这么说，但雷霆在关键时刻执行不力是个老毛病了。

[–]Thundermisterzadir 8 指標 13小時前 

We do execute. We execute 1v5 streetball offense.

我们执行的很到位啊。我们执行的是1V5的街头篮球进攻战术。

[–]SpursBoom9001 4 指標 15小時前 

It isn't just unlucky to be beaten by buzzer beater. You shouldn't have let the team come back into the game, you should have closed it.

被压哨球击败也不是运气不好，你就不该让别的球队追回来，应该要直接杀死比赛的

[–]Cavalierspericles123 7 指標 14小時前 

blah blah blah - in retrospect, they shouldn't have traded Harden, would have at least a couple of titles by now

都是些废话——回顾历史，他们就不应该交易掉哈登，那样的话，到现在最少能拿几个冠军了。

[–]Kings Bandwagonrecon_dingo 15 指標 15小時前 

It's karma for seattle

西雅图的因果报应吧。

[–]Thundermediuqrepmes 5 指標 12小時前 

In addition to what OP noted, consider:

The NBA retroactively turned KD's rookie extension into a Rose Rule max, which took away the extra salary cap space we were going to use to give Harden the extension he wanted. The NBA later admitted fault and refunded $15 million to OKC, but it was after the Harden trade and thus the damage was already done.

The repeater tax was put into place in the 2011 CBA to thwart the assembly of super teams like Miami. The repeater tax instead prompted OKC to trade Harden, breaking up the very sort of homegrown, small market team the new CBA was supposed to encourage.

The salary cap spike happened in the summer Durant was a free agent, which meant that for the first time in NBA history, practically every team in the league was able to recruit the premiere free agents. If the cap spike hadn't coincided with Durant's free agency, he's not wearing a Warriors jersey today.

The new CBA increased the rookie cap holds for RFAs. Under the old CBA, by trading Kanter and making a couple of other minor moves OKC could have opened up max or near-max cap space this summer. Because of the change to the rookie cap holds, that cap space disappeared, which is why Presti extended Adams and Oladipo rather than waiting for free agency...which essentially locked OKC into its existing core moving forward.

OKC got very, very lucky in the draft from 2007 through 2009, and it looks like we had to pay the piper thereafter.

雷蜜：给楼主提到的那些再添加一些，大家注意一下：

NBA当时把杜兰特新秀合同后的那份合同追加认定为了一份符合罗斯条款的顶薪合同，这样就占掉了我们想拿来续约哈登的薪金空间。联盟之后承认他们犯了个错误，给雷霆补偿了1500万美元，但那已经是在哈等的交易之后了，木已成舟。

2011年的劳资协议里加进了双重奢侈税这一项，来阻止像热火这样的超级球队的出现，但这个附加税最后却导致了我雷交易走哈登，拆散了一支本来应该受到新劳资协议鼓励的自选自养的小城市球队。

工资帽的激增在这个夏天杜兰特成为自由球员的时候发生，这就意味着NBA历史上第一次，每支球队都可以招募顶级自由球员。如果工资帽的激增和杜兰特成为自由球员这两件事没有同时发生的话，他现在穿着的就不是勇士球衣了。

新的劳资协议增加了新秀在成为受限制自由球员时所占用的薪金空间。在旧的劳资协议下我们可以交易掉坎特再加上一些小操作，在这个夏天来释放能够吃下一个顶薪合同或者是接近顶薪合同的薪金空间。但因为新秀合同占用的薪金空间增加，这部分空间就消失了，这也是普莱斯蒂直接延长了亚当斯和奥拉迪波的合同，而不是等他们进入自由球员市场的原因……这也基本上锁定了雷霆向前迈进时的核心阵容。

雷霆在2007到2009年的选秀中非常非常走运，但是看起来人品最终还是守恒的。

[–]LakersPartyintheattic 3 指標 15小時前 

More like durant mentally struggling last year. They had all but won the championship. Warriors looked like a joke compared to their usual.

去年更像是杜兰特自己心态崩了，他们除了冠军啥都拿到了。勇士去年对阵雷霆的时候跟他们的正常状态比起来就是个笑话。

[–]johncenatbh 9 指標 15小時前 

Westbrook choked even more, last 3 games:

KD: 32/7/3 on 40/27/92

WB: 26/10/7 on 37/26/74, plus 5 TOV per game, plus trash defense

实际上威斯布鲁克卡壳的更严重，最后三场：

杜兰特：32+7+3命中率40%+27%+92%

威斯布鲁克：26+10+7命中率37%+26%+74%

同时场均五失误，防守也是一团糟。

[–]Lakersshitmcshitposterface 7 指標 13小時前 

This sub is too much.

If Durant stayed: Championship contender, could have easily won a ring

If Durant Leaves: This is a one man team, just Westbrook and the rest is trash

这个论坛太过分了。

杜兰特留下来就成了：冠军争夺者，可以轻松拿到戒指

杜兰特如果走了就是：这球队是属于一个人的，除了威斯布鲁克，剩下的都是垃圾。

翻译：@ClydeBot

Forget MVP -- who should win LEAST Valuable Player? (self.nba)

别再去争论谁是MVP了——看看谁才是这赛季最没有价值的球员吧？

Some caveats on this list --

--- Obviously, the worst players in the league are the ones who sit at the end of the bench and don't get any playing time. However, this award is trying to "honor" the player who hurt their team the most this season, so we're focusing on players who log heavy minutes (20+) and consequently negatively affected their team's play.

--- I'm ignoring young players (under 22) who are still developing. A young pup like Emmanuel Mudiay is much worse than replacement level, but in theory the Nuggets are wise to play him with the hope that he can be better someday. We won't pick on their growing pains.

--- I'm also bypassing players on tanking teams that didn't particularly care about winning or losing this season.

With all that said, he's my list.

dishonorable mentions

Solomon Hill (NO), Marco Belinelli (CHA), Matthew Dellavedova (MIL), J.R. Smith (CLE), Marcus Morris (DET), EDIT: forgot Joakim Noah (NY)

LEAST value players (2016-17)

(5) SF Evan Turner, Portland: 25.6 mins per game, 11.6 PER

Most savvy NBA fans groaned when the Blazers paid Turner $17 million a season this summer, and their skepticism has largely been justified. Turner's primary talent (his playmaking) isn't best suited to a team with a loaded backcourt. Turner's 3.2 assists a game is solid, but doesn't make up for his lack of shooting ability (currently at 26.3% from three). In fact, ESPN's real +/- lists his offensive impact as an atrocious -2.9, one of the lowest marks in the league given his playing time. Turner's also a mediocre defender, making him a net negative on the year.

(4) SG Josh Richardson, Miami: 30.3 mins per game, 10.7 PER

The unheralded Richardson came out of nowhere last season and lit it up to the tune of 46.1% shooting from beyond the arc (albeit it on a total of only 115 attempts). Given that, there were high expectations for this year, and some heavy playing time given to the 23-year-old (who just barely qualifies for our age limit). Turns out... that shooting maaay have been a fluke. Richardson's gotten the green light this year (launching twice as many threes), but his efficiency's down to 32.6%. His defense is solid, but overall there's not enough there to justify 30 minutes a night.

(3) SG Arron Afflalo, Sacramento: 25.8 mins per game, 8.7 PER

Unlike the previous two wings, Afflalo's actually shot well from beyond the arc this season, hitting 41%. The problem is: he doesn't add much else. He only grabs 2.1 rebounds a game (in 25+ minutes) and his defense (always overrated) has been worse than ever. Real +/- lists him as a -2.7 on that end. The Kings may be tanking now, but they didn't come into the season with that intention. Afflalo's mediocre ability is a reason that those playoff hopes were mere pipedreams.

(2) PF Jeff Green, Orlando: 22.2 mins per game, 10.6 PER

Along with Arron Afflalo, Jeff Green is becoming a staple of LVP consideration over these last few years. Despite a consensus that he wasn't a productive NBA player any more, the genius that is Rob Hennigan actually gave him a 1 year, $15 million deal (on the presumption that the Magic may contend for the playoffs). Time to go back to the drawing (white) board, Mr. Hennigan. Green has proven to be as ineffective as ever; he can't shoot (39.4% from the field, 27.5% from three) and his defense is below average (-1.5 according to real plus/minus). Green may have won the LVP if he got more than his 22 minutes a night.

(1) SG Monta Ellis, Indiana: 27.0 mins per game, 10.2 PER

In theory, Monta Ellis should be a helpful NBA player. At the very least, he should be a scoring machine off the bench, a la Jamal Crawford. Unfortunately, Ellis isn't an effective scorer anymore, logging just 8.6 points per game despite 27 minutes a night. He can't stretch the floor (32.1% from three), or defend (-1.7 real plus/minus on that end). He's not even hitting his three throws (72.7%). Ellis may not be the worst player in the league, or even the worst player on this list, but he's the one logging meaningful minutes for an actual contender and dragging them down the most.

Edit Most Miami Heat fans strongly defend Josh Richardson, so it feels like I'm off on him. The most common "snub" so far has been Chandler Parsons, but he didn't play enough minutes this year to qualify.

对下面这份榜单的一些说明：

---显然，联盟里最差的球员肯定是那些处于板凳末端，得不到任何上场时间的人。然而，我提出的“最没有价值球员”这个奖项是想要“表彰”那些这赛季里对球队伤害最大的球员，所以我们的关注点在于那些有着大量上场时间（20+分钟），结果却对球队的表现产生负作用的球员。

---我忽略了那些非常年轻（22岁以下），仍然处于成长阶段的球员。一个年轻小伙子比如像穆迪埃，他要比球队中自己位置上的替代者糟糕得多，但是理论上掘金仍然给他上场机会是很理智的，期望他能够在以后变得更好。我们不会因为成长的代价就把他们放进这份榜单里。

---同时我也绕过了那些摆烂球队里的球员，因为这赛季他们的母队本身就不怎么关心胜负。

说了这么多，下面是我的榜单。

荣誉提名：

所罗门-希尔（鹈鹕），马科-贝里内利（黄蜂），马修-德拉维多瓦（雄鹿），J.R.史密斯（骑士），马库斯-莫里斯（活塞），注：我忘了乔金-诺阿（尼克斯）。

正式颁奖：最没有价值的球员（2016-17）

（5）小前锋 埃文-特纳，开拓者：场均25.6分钟，效率值11.6

绝大多数懂球的人都会抱怨开拓者在去年夏天给了特纳一份1700万一年的合同，而当时他们大多数的怀疑都被证明是对的。特纳最主要的天赋（他的组织能力）并不适合这支后场拥挤的球队，这赛季他场均3.2记助攻确实很棒，但是这不足以弥补他在投射能力上的缺失（目前三分命中率只有26.3%）。事实上吗，ESPN的真实正负值表显示他在进攻端的影响居然达到了残暴的-2.9，这样的数据属于联盟最低的之一，鉴于他这么多的上场时间。特纳在防守端也平庸，这样就使得这赛季他的作用完全为负。

（4）得分后卫 约什-理查德森，热火：场均30.3分钟，效率值10.7

名不见经传的理查德森上赛季不知怎么的就爆发了，并投出了46.1%的三分球命中率（尽管只出手了115次）。鉴于此，今年他身上的期望本应该很高，而且大量的上场时间给予到了这个23岁的年轻人身上（他差一点就达到了我们的年龄限制了），结果却......也许上赛季的命中率只是侥幸罢了。今年理查德森得到了无限开火的权利（三分出手数比去年多了两倍），但是他的命中率下降到了只有32.6%。他的防守很好，但是总体上这并不足以证明他值得每晚30分钟的上场时间。

（3）得分后卫 阿隆-阿弗拉罗，国王：场均25.8分钟，效率值8.7

不像上面两个侧翼球员，这赛季阿弗拉罗在三分线外的表现还挺不错，命中率达到了41%。然而问题在于：其它方面他都不行。他场均只能抢到2.1个篮板（在25+分钟的时间里），同时他的防守（总是被高估）也是到达了从未有过的糟糕。真实正负值显示他在防守端的数据只有-2.7。也许国王现在在摆烂，但是他们并不是赛季一开始就是这么想的。阿弗拉罗的平庸也是国王季后赛梦想落空的原因之一。

（2）大前锋 杰夫-格林，魔术：场均22.2分钟，效率值10.6

和阿弗拉罗一样，杰夫-格林已然成为最近几年“最没价值球员”评选中的一根标杆。尽管大家都已经对他不再是一个高产出的球员达成了共识，但是天才总经理罗伯-亨尼根实际上却给了他一份一年1500万的合同（还是在假设魔术能够冲进季后赛的前提下开出的）。亨尼根先生，您还是回去当副手绘制交易白板吧。格林已经证明了他达到了从未有过的低效，他投射糟糕（命中率39.4%，三分命中率27.5%），防守也低于平均值（真实正负值显示防守数据为-1.5）。如果他得到了超过22分钟的上场时间，也许“最没有价值球员”的奖杯就是他的了。

（1）得分后卫 蒙塔-埃利斯，步行者：场均27分钟，效率值10.2

理论上来说，艾利斯应该是个很有作用的球员。最起码他应该是板凳席上的一名得分好手，就像克劳福德那样。不幸的是，艾利斯已经不再是名高效的得分手了，尽管每晚仍然有27分钟的上场时间，他却只能得到8.6分。他无法为球队拉开空间（三分线外命中率只有32.1%），防守也很糟糕（防守端真实正负值-1.7），就连罚球他都经常投丢（72.7%的罚球命中率）。艾利斯也许不是联盟里最糟糕的球员，就算在这份榜单里，他也不是最差劲的，但是他却是那个从确实有季后赛实力的球队中获得大量有效上场时间，却将球队拖垮的人。

注：大多数的热火球迷都非常强硬的为约什-理查德森辩护，所以感觉我可能错怪他了。目前为止受到最多斥责的一直都是钱德勒-帕森斯，但是今年他并没有上场足够的时间从而让他有资格进入评选的范围。

[–][CHI] Rajon Rondoptam 562 指標 1 天前

Homer opinion but: Cameron Payne.

His value was dancing with Westbrook; he doesn't even have that anymore.

公牛蜜：可能带有主观色彩的选择，但是我一定要说：卡梅隆-佩恩。

他的价值就在于和维斯布鲁克共舞，但是现在他连这点价值都没有了。

[–]ZandrickEllison[S] 114 指標 1 天前

According to Gar, he has quite a bit of trade value, apparently...

但是根据加尔-福曼的做法来说，显然他有很高的交易价值。

[–][CHI] Derrick Rosebluexdd 38 指標 1 天前

Gar totally knows what he's talking about, look at all that he's done; he drafted Jimmy Butler! /s

加尔绝对知道他在做什么，看看他的成就吧，他为我们选中了吉米-巴特勒！

[–]Bullswjbc 12 指標 1 天前

Doug McDermott played many more minutes and was one of the least productive players in the league. Payne might be just as bad or worse, but hasn't played nearly as much.

之前道格-迈克德莫特的出场时间要高的多，而且是联盟中产出最低的球员之一。佩恩也许和他一样差或者更糟，但是远没有他获得的上场时间多。

[–]Knicksazizinator25 208 指標 1 天前

Both Noah and Parsons should be on this list.

诺阿和帕森斯都应该在楼主的榜单里。

[–][TOR] Jose Calderondeadskin 100 指標 1 天前

Yeah, but technically Parsons is "only" playing 19.9MPG which is below the 20MPG that OP wants

是的，但是讲道理帕森斯的场均上场时间“只有”19.9分钟，这样就低于楼主所说的20分钟的标准。

[–]ZandrickEllison[S] 76 指標 1 天前

yeah they've both missed a ton of games, too, which limits their ineffectiveness.

他俩都缺席了大量的比赛，这也限制了他们的低效。

[–][TOR] Serge IbakaDirtyDanoTho 25 指標 1 天前

But they both make >Mozgov money

但是他俩拿的钱比莫兹戈夫还多。

[–][WAS] John Walllivefreeordont 34 指標 1 天前

contract doesnt have an effect on MVP why should it have an effect on LVP?

合同因素并不会计入MVP的考虑范围内，那么为什么要计入“最没有价值球员”的考虑范围内呢？

[–]ZandrickEllison[S] 9 指標 1 天前

I didn't really factor in contracts, personally, but I did reference them. I think, in many of these cases, bad players get playing time because the team wants to justify their contract.

实际上我个人并没有认真的去考虑合同，但是我确实对此有些参考。我认为很多时候糟糕的球员仍然得到上场时间，原因就是球队想兑现他合同的价值。

[–]Magicdooleysucks 82 指標 1 天前

Jeff Green at #2 is a huge undervaluation of how shitty he truly is.

His offense, defense, and effort were all garbage and we wasted 1500 minutes that should have been going to a D-League guy who actually played hard and tried on defense

I disagree with your analysis on his contract. It was a pretty smart move to bring him in to go over the salary floor and a 1 year deal means it wasn't detrimental to our future at all. I'd much rather give him 1/15 than 2/20 or 3/25. Just wish we waived him at the deadline once nobody wanted his expiring contract.

杰夫-格林只排第二就完全低估了他的糟糕程度了。

他的进攻，防守和努力程度都非常烂，而且我们在他身上浪费了1500分钟，这本应该给予某个发展联盟的家伙，能够在场上努力的打球并在防守端拼命。

但是我不同意楼主对于他合同的分析，实际上把他签下从而填满“穷鬼线”是个很聪明的举动，而且1年的合同也不意味着将来他会伤害到球队。我完全愿意给他1年1500万，而不是2年2000万或是3年2500万。只希望我们能在截止日之前裁掉他，如果没人想接手的话。

[–]KnicksSosaDaVinci 334 指標 1 天前

Joakim Noah...

乔金-诺阿。

[–]76ersTO_show81 60 指標 1 天前

Just put him to #1 and call it a day

把这家伙放到第一，这份榜单就完整了。

[–][CLE] Kyrie Irvingnvduhn 19 指標 1 天前

I can't believe how hard he fell off. His D was always what made him, thought he'd keep it in a Ben Wallace way and retire being a key piece... nope, just turned into hot garbage in his last two years with the Bulls and stayed hit garbage on the Knicks. Crazy cuz I've always respected Noah, hate him cuz of the rivalry, but dude can play ball. And he's an insane energy guy.

我还是不相信他下滑的这么厉害。他的防守一直是成就他的东西，还以为他会像本-华莱士一样一直保留防守端的技术，并慢慢下滑成一名关键的角色球员...然而并不是这样，在他公牛最后两年的时间里诺阿完全变成了垃圾，现在则轮到尼克斯去忍受他了。这听起来很疯狂，因为我之前一直很尊敬诺阿，因为他的极具竞争的个性而憎恨他，但是这家伙真的能打球，而且他曾经是一个能量惊人的家伙。

[–]Wizards12AaronJones21 71 指標 1 天前

You're out of your mind putting Josh Richardson on this list. He's a great defender. Wall shot 5-18 in his last matchup against him

你把约什-理查德森放到名单里简直是疯了。他是个非常出色的防守者，上次沃尔面对他时，投篮只有18中5。

[–]TimberwolvesKLoveUnleashed 9 指標 1 天前

Seriously, Richardson doesn't belong anywhere near this list. He might be maxxed out in a couple years if he keeps it up. He's also only making $525K in salary this year...

讲道理，理查德森怎么说都不属于这份名单，如果他保持现在的趋势，几年后也许会拿到顶薪。而且这赛季他也仅仅只拿着52.5万的工资...

[–][OKC] Dion Waiterspjorneaux 91 指標 1 天前

Semaj Christon, 15.1 mins per game, 5.7 PER

萨马基-克里斯顿，场均15.1分钟，效率值5.7。

[–]ZandrickEllison[S] 101 指標 1 天前

He would make the cut if he got up to 20 minutes. I'm still not convinced he's a real NBA player. feels like a video game franchise mode name.

只要他上场时间达到20分钟，他就会进入这份榜单。我还是不相信他是个真实存在的NBA球员，感觉这好像只是游戏模式里才有的名字。

[–]nballaccess 28 指標 1 天前

he hit the shot that got russ the record SMH

然而他却命中了那记帮助威少破纪录的投篮。

[–]MavericksDirkNowitzkisWife 19 指標 1 天前

Chandler Parsons: 675 minutes played, 6.2/3.5/1.6 on 43.6% true shooting, missed 48 games, 7.6 PER, net rating of -16, getting paid over 22 million a year.

钱德勒-帕森斯：一共打了675分钟，场均6.2/3.5/1.6，真实命中率43.6%，缺席48场比赛，效率值7.6，净效率-16，一年拿着超过2200万的工资。

[–][ATL] Josh ChildressTittyBoyTellEm 35 指標 1 天前

How's Corey Brewer doing these days?

最近布鲁尔表现如何？

[–][LAL] Kobe BryantDongsquad420BlazeIt 52 指標 1 天前

Training our young players in how to score 50 points in a game.

湖人蜜：正在教我们的年轻小伙子们怎么一场比赛拿50分呢。

[–]Thunderokiewxchaser 61 指標 1 天前

Kyle Singler

凯尔-辛格勒

[–]JazzSFW_developer 37 指標 1 天前

Hasn't this man been through enough!

难道这位大兄弟经历得还不够多吗！

[–]Thundermisterzadir 7 指標 1 天前

Singler is 6th man, bruh. All day.

雷霆蜜：大兄弟，辛格勒绝对是我们的第六人，怎么说都是。

[–]ThunderZenWizdom 2 指標 1 天前

I was gonna say Kyle Singler... but then he shut me up by becoming our MVP candidate in the last 2 games

我本来准备说凯尔-辛格勒的...但是他这两场比赛的表现让我闭上了嘴，我会说他是MVP的候选人。

[–][PHO] Devin BookerDBook1 10 指標 1 天前

Brandon Knight

布兰顿-奈特

[–]ZandrickEllison[S] 7 指標 1 天前

He's up there, but I think teams are starting to realize he's in that Jeff Green toxic mold. Down from 36.0 minutes to 21 this year.

他确实很烂，但是我认为球队已经意识到了他是和杰夫-格林一样的毒瘤，今年他的上场时间已经从36分钟下降到21分钟了。

[–]Trail BlazersCletus_Starfish 13 指標 1 天前

It's so crazy how hard he fell off. He was a borderline All-Star a couple of years ago on the Bucks.

他下滑的速度之快简直令人惊奇，几年前在雄鹿时他还是个全明星边缘的球员。

Marc Gasol: "Stats are killing basketball. This is a very subjective game, a lot of things happen that you can't measure with stats. Very different details matter. The way I see basketball, the most important things don't show up in statistics."

马克-加索尔：“数据正在伤害着比赛，篮球是一项非常主观的运动，很多场上发生的事情你都无法用数据去衡量。很多不同的细节都对比赛结果非常重要。以我对篮球比赛的观点来看，比赛中最重要的事情是不会在数据中体现出来的。”

[–]Enigma512 2755 指標 12小時前

Makes a good point. Sometimes, you can't see with stats how utterly shit some players are.

You have to see it with your own eyes.

很有道理，有时候光看数据你完全不知道这个球员究竟有多么的差劲。

你必须要用自己的眼睛亲自去看才行。

[–]Thunderballout337 131 指標 11小時前

Can't score the basketball with a calculator!

毕竟你无法用计算器得分！

[–]76ersAthos19 637 指標 11小時前

Okafor

奥卡福。

[–]Cavaliersvoyaging 122 指標 8小時前

His advanced stats are abysmal anyway. His RPM is worst in the league last I checked.

他的高阶数据本来就非常烂，他的真实正负值排在联盟倒数第一，在上次我查看时。

[–]HeatShiny_metal_ass 53 指標 7小時前

He's got a good offensive game. If he had any type of structure I think he could be decent. Also he's young as fuck

但是他的进攻很棒啊，只要他得到任何系统性的培养我认为他会很棒。另外他也非常的年轻。

[–]76ersKingdariush 17 指標 4小時前

Not really, He's not good on either side of the ball simply because he slows everything down on offense, and on defense he's laughable

76人蜜：并不是这样，他攻防两端的表现都很差，因为他在进攻端会简单的让所有事情都慢下来，然后在防守端他简直可笑。

[–]Warriors49_Giants 260 指標 12小時前

Who has great stats but is ultimately a shit player? Stats nearly perfectly correlate with who we all agree are the greats.

联盟中谁有着出色的数据却实际上是个很糟糕的球员呢？数据总是能与那些我们公认为很出色的球员对上号。

[–][OKC] Andre Robersonwhoami1984 47 指標 11小時前

Enes Kanter.

伊内斯-坎特。

[–]Knicksstoneyholiday 52 指標 11小時前

Carmelo.

安东尼。

[–]Kingsuptoolate712 999 指標 11小時前

I really hate to say this, and I would never say that he is shit, but... DeMarcus Cousins always has awesome stats, yet fails to help his team win. Stats can't measure attitude and team chemistry.

国王蜜：我真的很不想这么说，我也永远不会说他是个垃圾，但是...考辛斯总是能拿到出色的数据，却无法帮助球队取得胜利。数据无法衡量态度和球队的化学反应。 

[–]Emteen 103 指標 10小時前

He actually has worse efficiency stats than I would have guessed for being considered the best offensive center in the league the last few years. People give him a pass because he's had such high usage and played for such bad teams, but if you just look at his eFG, TS, WS/48, etc he really doesn't look that great.

实际上作为过去几年中人们认为的联盟中进攻最好的中锋，他的效率值比我想象中的要低得多。人们放过了他，因为他有着如此高的使用率同时处于如此烂的一支球队中，但是如果你去看看他的有效投篮命中率，真实投篮命中率，每48分钟的胜利贡献值等等这些高阶数据，他真的表现不太好。

[–]BullsChiefMyQueef 287 指標 11小時前

I hope that the Pelicans can do something with Boogie and AD. They are too good not to make something happen these next few years.

我希望在拥有考辛斯和安东尼-戴维斯的条件下鹈鹕能搞出些事情来，他们完全有能力在未来几年内搞出点动静。

[–]Buckstheconfuserx2 75 指標 10小時前

They just need one guy to make them a big 3

他们只是还需要一个球员来凑成三巨头

[–]RaptorsDaPhoToss 62 指標 9小時前

CP3 to Pelicans

保罗去鹈鹕怎么样？

[–]76ersKungFuMosquito 64 指標 6小時前

As much as I like blake and DJ, they aint AD and cousins

虽然我很喜欢格里芬和小乔丹，但是他俩显然不是戴维斯和考辛斯。

[–]JazzJuneFlyFrost 316 指標 11小時前

Wolves Kevin Love looked like one of the greatest PF of all time if you just look at his stats...

森林狼时期的乐福看上去就像历史最伟大的大前锋之一，如果你只看他的数据的话...

[–]Cavaliersspembert 279 指標 11小時前

Yeah, but he's not shit though.

是的，但是他确实不是水货。

[–]TheBlindSalesman 177 指標 11小時前

In fact he was quite great!! I remember when he was considered the best PF in the league above BG.

事实上他曾经真的非常厉害！！我记得他曾经被认为是联盟中最好的大前锋，排在格里芬之前。

[–]Cavalierstomastaz 62 指標 11小時前

Yeah if he could channel some of that back soon that'd be great

骑士蜜：是的，如果他能尽快找回一些那时的状态就好了。

[–]Emteen 64 指標 10小時前

He just needs a lower back transplant and he should be good to go.

他只是需要恢复背部的健康就没问题了。

[–]GeneralsROB_CASH 144 指標 11小時前

not quite sure what youre arguing since his last two healthy years with the wolves he absolutely was the best PF in the league

不知道你们在争论什么，因为在他最后两个在森林狼健康的赛季里，他是毫无疑问的联盟第一大前锋。

[–]ClippersMetta_wool_fleece 92 指標 11小時前

The biggest Blake griffin fan here and it wasn't even close. Klove was other worldly as first option on a bad team

格里芬最铁杆的球迷在这里，当时他俩的差距真的很大。乐福作为一支烂队的第一选择，简直是来自另外一个星球的运动员。

[–]BullsBombast- 25 指標 8小時前

as first option on a bad team

Exactly the point of this discussion. When you are the center-piece of a team, you get all the stats. He didn't magically become worse when he went to Cleveland, he got put in a position where he is no longer the one receiving all the stats on his own team. There is a "diminishing returns" of stats on a team.

There are so many players who went from superstars to just great players once they moved from their "big fish, little pond" situation.

作为烂队的第一选择

这正是讨论的核心。当你是球队的核心时，你就能拿到所有的这些数据。来到骑士后，他不是像变魔术般的突然就垃圾了，而是他被放在了一个不再像以前自己球队那样能够得到所有数据的位置上。一支球队中球员的个人数据是具有“收益递减”效果的。

联盟中有很多球员都从超级球星变成了普通的球星，一旦他们从原本“一家独大”的位置离开后。

[–]Celtics0per 178 指標 11小時前

Marcus smart is the opposite. Bad stats but makes an unquestionable positive impact on the game.

斯马特则刚好相反，数据糟糕，但是毫无疑问他对比赛有着积极的影响。

[–]MagicBig_Apple3AM 128 指標 11小時前*

I know I'm tooting Bill Simmons' horn here but he makes those winning plays in a game. Plays that really change the course of a game. A big steal in the middle of a run to keep bringing the team back, a charge taken to stop a run by the other team. Stats don't value those players high enough.

Players like Larry Nance JR get the short end of the stick too. Good PnR defense, good cutting, hockey assists, boxing out, good screen setting, communication on D. All things he does well, but he'll hardly get anything from it

我知道这么说有点像比尔-西蒙斯的论调了，但是他确实在比赛中打出了关键的制胜表现，他的那些表现真的能改变比赛的走向。在对手起势一波流的正中间完成一记大场面的抢断，从而把球队带回到比赛中来，或者造成对手带球撞人犯规从而中断对手的攻势。数据不能足够的体现这些表现的价值。

[–][LAL] Kobe Bryantjames3129 1051 指標 12小時前

r/nba on suicide watch

看来要防止shh集体自杀了。

[–]Seven_Sayer 33 指標 10小時前

If he wins the championship, we can never talk about stats ever again.

如果他赢了总冠军，我们就再也不能谈论数据了。

[–]NetsAleksandrSokolov 918 指標 11小時前*

That's because r/nba doesn't actually watch basketball unless its a marquee game or playoffs.

因为shh里的人真正去看比赛的不多，除非是焦点之战或是季后赛。

[–][LAL] Kobe Bryantjayz93j 214 指標 11小時前*

Lol what? This sub has hundreds of thousands of people on. Most of whom watch assumedly watch basketball. That's how we end up with highlights from all the games and populated post game threads. This is a ridiculous generalization.

Edit: I watch basketball all the time, hell I've seen most of the Lakers games this season which was no cakewalk

湖蜜：哈哈哈，你说啥？这论坛里可是有着很多人的，大多数都自认为自己看了比赛，这也就是为什么现在每场比赛都有集锦，以及赛后讨论贴增多。这代人有点不可思议。

注：我从来都会去看比赛，真见鬼我看了这赛季几乎所有的湖人比赛，这可没你们想象的那么容易。

[–]BulletsMachagoat13 797 指標 12小時前

You need stats and the eye test. Balance is important for everything in life.

Except cocaine, you can never do enough of that shit.

你会同时需要数据和眼睛所看到的真实表现。生活中平衡对于任何事情都是非常重要的。

除了毒品，你永远不会尝够那些玩意儿。

[–][MEM] Hamed Haddadifreudianchips 362 指標 12小時前

I'm torn. I'm a stats major and I love poring over advanced stats because I find it really interesting. But I don't need PER or VORP or things like that to tell me who's good and who's not. I think stats are a good supplement but nothing beats watching the games

我感到很煎熬，我是个数据分析专业的学术，我喜欢全神贯注的研究高阶数据，因为这很有意思。但是我不需要效率值或是可替代球员差值（VORP）这样的东西去告诉我谁更好睡更差。我认为数据是一个非常好的补充，但是没有任何事情比得上真正观看比赛。

[–][POR] Clifford RobinsonSardinesGivePower 265 指標 12小時前

And there is a reason EVERY pro sports team uses advanced stats and actual scouts. You need both. If a person thinks one or the other should be gospel then that person is an idiot.

每支职业球队都会同时使用高阶数据和雇用球探，你两者都需要。如果一个人认为某一方就是真理而不需要另一方的话，他就是个傻子。

[–]Warriorshelp_me_will 145 指標 11小時前

Actuary here. To my mind it just means that the stats aren't advanced enough yet. Everything can be modeled.

实际上在这里，对我来说只意味着现在这些数据还没有达到足够的高阶，任何事情都可以被模型化。

[–]PacersXZTALVENARNZEGOMSAYT 813 指標 12小時前

Some people here think Kobe was never the best player in the league and I wonder if I lived in a different dimension at the time

有些人甚至觉得科比从来就不是联盟里最棒的球员，我在怀疑在那时我是不是生活在另一个空间里。

[–]Westma103 50 指標 10小時前*

If that player keeps fucking up your team despite being "inefficient", you may not like him that much. Stats is the only thing these poor souls can get back to him.

如果一个球员一直能够用“低效率”的方式摧毁你的球队，你肯定不会太喜欢他。数据是那些可怜鬼们唯一能够得到的去攻击科比的东西。

[–]Lakerskoukies 36 指標 10小時前

The one thing stats don't show with Kobe is the degree of difficulty on his shot selection and the number of defenders on him. 2 points is 2 points on a stat sheet, but doing an insane double clutch hangtime layup against prime Dwight Howard trying to block your shot? That doesn't show up. Or making an off balance fadeaway over 3 defenders? You wouldn't know unless you watched the game. But that gets counted the same as an open lay-up.

一件数据显示不出来关于科比的事情就是，他投篮选择的难度以及当时防守他的人数。在数据表上2分就只是2分，但是在面对巅峰霍华德时做出一记惊人的双重悬空的关键上篮怎么说？这一点都显示不出来，或者面对三名防守者时命中一记失去平衡后的后仰跳投？你也不知道，除非你亲自看了比赛，但是数据表中这种高难度进球和空位2分是被同样计算的。

Kristaps Porzingis skipped exit meetings due to frustration over dysfunction, drama surrounding NYK, team sources told ESPN. Story coming.

球队信息源告诉ESPN，波尔津吉斯没有出席尼克斯的赛季总结会议，原因是对球队的功能失调感到极度的沮丧，闹剧围绕着尼克斯。好戏上场了。

[–]NBALazymang 888 指標 1 天前

Dolan: "Kristaps Porzingis is a drunk."

多兰：“波尔津吉斯是个酒鬼。”

[–]PelicansBigEarl139 2211 指標 15 小時前

Dude has only been there for 2 years and he's already tired of the shit in New York.

That really tells you all you need to know.

小伙子才来了两年就已经厌倦了尼克斯的这些烂事了

这就已经把你需要知道的事情说得很清楚了。

[–]WhyAmIStillOnline 12 指標 1 天前

I mean, two years is already a lot. We're talking about dealing with this every single day. Whether he's at work likely taking an L in front of thousands, or at home/in the car hearing about it on the TV/internet/radio.

我感觉两年已经够长了。我们谈论的是无时无刻不得处理这些烂事，不管是他在上万观众面前输掉一场比赛，还是回家后/在车里又听到电视/网络/电台谈论这些东西。

[–]GrizzliesRuddyBollocks 75 指標 1 天前

Lead team executive actively and publicly tries to discourage longest standing franchise player to want to play for team all season - and team responds by extending said executive two years - I wouldn't want to play there either

球队首席执行官在整个赛季都非常积极的在大众面前诋毁自己阵中效力时间最长的球员，从而不想让他继续为球队效力——然后球队对此的回应却是延长2年与这位执行官的合同——换我我也不想在那里打球。

[–][WAS] Michael Jordankalifornia_kid 861 指標 14 小時前

Knicks fans: this couldn't possibly get any worse...

Kristaps: Hold my beer.

尼克斯球迷：反正也不可能更糟了...

波尔津吉斯：我需要喝一杯。

[–]tommos 205 指標 12 小時前

Knicks fans finally see a ray of sunshine through the dark clouds andBLOCKED BY PORZINGIS

尼克斯球迷从黑暗中见到的唯一一丝光线被波尔津吉斯挡住了。

[–]KnickszOmgFishes 84 指標 21小時前

I knew this shit was going to go bad the moment Phil decided to open his fucking mouth again. Melo has been nothing but professional at the end of the season then Phil comes in an fuck it up. I expected KP to be tired of this shit, but i did not expect it to be this soon.

我知道这闹剧又会变得严重，当菲尔决定再次张开他那张臭嘴时。在整个赛季里，安东尼都没有对此作出过激表现，他诠释了一个职业球员应该有的修养，然后菲尔又开始了他的表演，最终搞砸了一切。我造就指望波尔津吉斯会厌倦这些烂事，但是我没预料到这么快就到来了。

[–]76ersJ-Mosc 38 指標 18小時前

I respect what Phil did as a coach. But his upper management game is clearly not his strength.

我尊敬作为教练的菲尔-杰克逊，但是更高一级的管理能力显然不是他的强项。

[–]Bullshogcalling2015 200 指標 1 天前

Such a messed up organization right bad. Feel bad for their fans.

公牛蜜：如此烂糟糟的管理层，为他们的球迷感到遗憾。

[–]Spurs Bandwagonlnstigator 64 指標 1 天前

You know it's bad when the Bulls fans are pitying you.

当公牛球迷都为你感到惋惜的时候，你就知道事情有多糟糕了。

[–]Knicksimmabluedevil 139 指標 1 天前

I love nothing more than basketball and I hate nothing more than my team. Fuck.

尼克斯球迷：没有比篮球更令我热爱的东西，也没有比我的母队更让我憎恨的事情。艹。

[–]Charlotte HornetsVgatv 1121 指標 1 天前

The irony is he refused to workout for the 76ers because he didn't want to go to a dysfunctional organization.

具有讽刺意味的是当初波尔津吉斯就拒绝为76人试训，因为他不想为一个功能失调的机构打球。

[–][NYK] Lance Thomasscmsf49 28 指標 1 天前

The Knicks were his favorite team, he always wanted to be here. He just probably underestimated how incompetent the FO actually is.

尼克斯曾经是他最喜爱的球队，他一直想为我们打球，只是他可能远远低估了这里的管理有多么的不完整。

[–][NYK] Lance ThomascallmeNY 704 指標 1 天前

This is a nightmare.

这简直是个噩梦。

[–]RocketsWillyTanner 387 指標 1 天前

A MeloDrama

一场安东尼主演的闹剧。

[–]SpursNeckrolls4life 51 指標 1 天前

Sorry about this man. For reals. I like the idea of the Knicks being good more than them ruining young talent.

对他感到可惜，真的。我希望尼克斯成为一支强队，而不是去糟蹋年轻的天赋。

[–]Pacersaidsfarts 25 指標 22小時前

You guys should have traded melo a while ago tbh. You're just making the post melo years worse and worse every month you hang onto him.

说实话你们早就该交易安东尼了，你们每多留下安东尼一个月，后安东尼时代的尼克斯就会更加糟糕。

[–]Trail Blazersfsm_the_alfredo 23 指標 22小時前

No trade clause

交易否决权。

[–]Pacersaidsfarts 12 指標 21小時前

I thought he said he would strongly consider waiving his no trade clause?

我认为他说过，他会强烈的考虑放弃自己的交易否决权？

[–]NuggetsHB3187 18 指標 21小時前

I know ifni were an nba player and had a NTC itd have to be an ideal situation for me to waive it. Probably the same with him, which makes it even harder for the Knicks to trade em
我不知道如果我是个NBA球员，然后在尼克斯拿着大合同，那么肯定需要条件合适到一定的程度我才会放弃自己的交易否决权。也许对安东尼来说也是一样，这样也让尼克斯更加难以交易他。

[–]Easttrump_and_durant 443 指標 1 天前

And the kid has only been in the league for 2 years damn

这孩子才刚进入联盟2年啊，见鬼。

[–]RottenSmegmaMan 129 指標 1 天前

That's insane. With the way things are going down over at New York, it looks like Porzingis is going to have a pretty interesting career.

这太疯狂了，鉴于今年尼克斯这出闹剧恶化的情形来看，波尔津吉斯将会拥有一个非常有趣的职业生涯。

[–]Incognitohero11 46 指標 23小時前

Might just take that qualifying offer in a couple years so he could GTFO of there in 2020

也许他在几年后会干脆接受资质报价，然后在2020年彻底的离开这个鬼地方。

[–]Lakerspickprotection 222 指標 1 天前

July 2019:

Kristaps signed the qualifying offer and will be an unrestricted free agent in 2020

2019年7月：

波尔津吉斯签下了资质报价，并将会在2020年成为一名不受限制的自由球员。 

[–]Warriorstwistedmind25 45 指標 1 天前*

I think that's the next way franchise players find a way to hit free agency and switch teams. The 2nd big contact you sign is the mammoth one. If you switch teams after 4-5 years, you can get the designated player role on another team for your next contract. You'd lose a little money on the first, but not as much if you switch teams on the second contract.

Edit: apparently I'm wrong and you would lose eligibility for supermax in this scenario.

我认为这是今后基石型球员进入到自由市场并更换效力球队的方式。球员生涯中签下的第二份大合同将会是天价的，所以如果你在生涯开始前4~5年就更换球队的话，你会在下一份合同中在下一支球队得到为你量身打造的位置。一开始你会失去一些钱，但是相比你在第二份大合同时再去更换球队而损失的金额来说，这些钱就显得不足为奇了。

注：显然我错了，因为这样你就无法拿到超级顶薪了。

[–]wrxwrx 53 指標 22小時前

Warriors already making cap space.

勇士已经在腾出薪金空间了。

[–]Grizzliesvcsgrizzfan 37 指標 19小時前

Porzingis under Kerr's coaching would be insane. It would like if Curry grew a foot, got worse at ball handling but got insanely better at shot blocking.

科尔手下的波尔津吉斯将会非常疯狂，就好像高了一英尺的库里，虽然持球能力差了一点，但是盖帽能力将会非常强。

[–]WarriorsTastyDonutHD 24 指標 13小時前

plz stop my dick is burning

快别说了，我已经硬到发烫了。

[–]Westmoonfossil 331 指標 1 天前

knicks have already broken him... pray for porzingod

尼克斯已经伤害了他...为波尔津吉斯祈祷吧。

[–]RaptorsDeKobe-DeBryant 486 指標 1 天前

Nice job Knicks, you're pissing off the 1 player that's actually gonna be part of the future.

干的真棒尼克斯，你们刚刚激怒了未来的基石球员。

[–]Bullstopforthis 249 指標 1 天前

It would be like if a unicorn that shat gold came walking into your house. You would so feel so lucky and grateful but you wouldn't know how to make it feel welcome. Plus your house is a bit of a crack den and eventually the Unicorn gets sad and wants to leave.

这就好像一只能拉出黄金的独角兽走进了你的家里，你感觉到如此的幸运和感激，但是你不知道如何让他感觉自己是受欢迎的。另外你的房子四处透风，残垣败壁，从而最终这支独角兽感到如此的伤心，离开了你们。

[–]Clippers2Blitz 76 指標 23 小時前

Yeah I agree. And it's not like the Unicorn hated living in a crack den, he liked having a home. But he wanted to help them fix their home, something the Knicks either didn't know how to do or just didn't want to.

是的我同意。但是并不是说这支独角兽讨厌住在破烂的房子里，他喜欢拥有家的感觉。但是他想要帮助你们去修理这座房子，让它重新焕发光彩，而这就是尼克斯要么不知道怎么去做，或者根本不想做的事情。

[–]Lakersjoaopvm 139 指標 1 天前

The Knicks better sort out their shit if they dont want the best thing that happened to them in the last 20 years walking out of the door

尼克斯最好快点收拾好这场闹剧，如果他们不想看着最近20年来他们所得到的最好的球员离开的话。

[–]Knicksthajoker4566 29 指標 1 天前

No player has ever turned down an extension so it would be unprecedented for him to leave after his rookie deal but it's the Knicks so anything is possible

几乎没有球员会拒绝母队的续约合同，所以对于他来说在新秀合同结束后选择离开将会是空前的决定，但是因为是尼克斯，所以任何事情都会发生。

[–]KnicksSaucy_Totchie 69 指標 1 天前

The Phil/Melo drama is like a divorced parents narrative. Now KP is entering his rebellious teen years.

这出菲尔/安东尼之间的闹剧就好像两位离婚的父母，然而现在波尔津吉斯刚刚进入了他充满逆反情绪的青春期里。

[–]KnicksHokageEzio 26 指標 22小時前

He tried so hard to tell mom and dad to stop fighting.

他非常努力的去说服妈妈和爸爸停止争论。

[–]PelicansHydroPumpCiroc 164 指標 1 天前

Phil Jackson is a genius.

菲尔-杰克逊是个天才。

[–]Sunsp0tatoman 267 指標 1 天前

he gone

波尔津吉斯已经走了。

[–]Thunderrussellp1212 134 指標 1 天前*

he just got there and he already gone

edit: if the Knicks could save this shit for the offseason that'd be great tbh

他刚来到这儿，但是内心已经离开了。

注：如果尼克斯在这个休赛期处理好这些烂事，说实话他们还是会很棒。

Should the Raptors give Lowry (turning 31 this summer) a 5 year 207 million contract? (self.nba)

猛龙应该给洛瑞（今年夏天就31岁）一份5年价值2.07亿美元的顶薪合同吗？

Kyle Lowry is an unrestricted free agent this summer and since he's a 10 year vet he's eligible for a 35% max deal with 8% raises from Toronto and 5% raises from any other team. Tortonto can offer a max 5 year deal while any other team can offer only 4 years. The table below is a breakdown of the max scenarios for Lowry

Contract               Amount ($M)

Raptors 5 year max       207.4

Raptors 4 year max       159.3

Other team 4 year max   152.4

Do you think the Raptors should give Lowry a 5 year 207 million contract this summer?

今年夏天洛瑞将会成为一名非受限的自由球员，同时因为他已经是一名效力了10年的老将了，从而他有资格从猛龙获得一份占工资帽35%，每年增额8%的顶薪，其他队则只能给出每年5%的增额。猛龙能给出一份5年顶薪，而其他队只能开出4年。下面的表具体分析了罗瑞能够拿到顶薪的情形：

合同                          金额（美元）

猛龙5年顶薪              2.074亿

猛龙4年顶薪              1.593亿

其他球队4年顶薪       1.524亿

你认为猛龙应该在今年夏天给洛瑞一份5年价值2.07亿美元的顶薪合同吗？

[–][MIA] Dwyane WadeDeja-Vu-Virus 98 指標 2 天前

Anyone willing to give that much for a 31 year old is going to regret it. End of story.

任何一个愿意给31岁老将这么大合同的人都会后悔的，结束争论。

[–]Celtics Bandwagonbootum 78 指標 2 天前

Unless he's an all star like joakim noer

除非他是像乔金-诺阿这样的全明星。

[–]Lakerspickprotection[S] 8 指標 2 天前

The Clippers are about to give that much to a 32 year old (although he is much better than Lowry)

然而快船即将给一位32岁的老将这么多钱了（尽管他比洛瑞出色很多）。

[–]Cavaliersbutter-muffins 43 指標 2 天前

Players like Chris Paul and LeBron don't really apply. Everyone knows that they are generational players and their games are ageing really well. For player like Millsap and Lowry are dangerous because they could dangerously decline any possible season.

像保罗和勒布朗这样的球员没什么可比性。每个人都知道他们是球场指挥官，而且他们会非常顺滑的老去。但是像米尔萨普和洛瑞这样的球员就很危险了，因为他们可能在任何一个赛季里就突然跳水了。

[–]RaptorsCoryJoseph6 12 指標 2 天前

chris pauls playoff stats are legendary. Lowry consistently chokes.

保罗的季后赛数据是传奇级别的，洛瑞则总是哑火。

[–]Jazz BandwagonJustinblackjackk 9 指標 2 天前

Team isnt shit without Lowry though

而且没了洛瑞这支球队也不差啊。

[–]Lakersdevomorales 38 指標 2 天前

yes because that's only $155M in us money

湖蜜：是的，因为我们只用花1.55亿就能签下他了。

[–]Wolves BandwagonRoyalLake 60 指標 2 天前

The real question is should Toronto let Lowry walk for nothing? Because that's what would happen. And the answer is a clear no.

真正的问题在于猛龙是否应该白白放走洛瑞？因为这正是会发生的事情，答案显然是否定的。

[–][PHI] Allen Iversonbonerbasketball 20 指標 2 天前

You can't commit all that money to a 31 year old who can't play in the playoffs. They'd be better of building around Derozan

你不能把这么多钱投到一个31岁不会打季后赛的老将身上。他们最好围绕着德罗赞建队。

[–][TOR] Serge IbakaDirtyDanoTho 38 指標 2 天前

The thing is we can't build off DeRozan. We can't build anymore period. No cap space.

猛龙蜜：关键是我们也无法围绕德罗赞建队啊，目前我们无法再添加任何的球员了，没有薪金空间了。

[–]RaptorsCoryJoseph6 10 指標 2 天前

why not? What's the point if he's like this every year? I'm willing to wait to the end of the playoffs and see but look at him today. It's the same shit the last 4 years. We can't give him a max only for him to crumble under playoff pressure.

为什么非要签下洛瑞呢？如果他每年都像这样的话，签下他的意义在哪里？我愿意等到季后赛结束后再做决定，但是看看他现在的样子吧，跟过去4年的表现一模一样。就因为他无法承受季后赛的压力这一个原因，我们就不能给他顶薪。

[–]Wolves BandwagonRoyalLake 19 指標 2 天前

Ok, you let him walk. Now what? You have no cap space and are much worse at PG. Where do you go from there?

好，那么你放他走了。那么现在情况又变成什么了呢？你们既没有了薪金空间，PG位置上的实力又急剧下降。你该如何从这种情况下走出来呢？

[–]LakersKsanti 17 指標 2 天前*

The raptors are sneakily in a pretty similar situation to the clippers in that it's shit or get off the pot, but getting off the pot means fringe playoff/lottery obscurity for a while for a franchise and ownership that might not be able to survive extended obscurity. They're not on the tail end yet unlike the clippers but basically the plan for then has to be try to keep ibaka and Lowry whatever happens this playoffs. If you can get Lowry to agree to a shorter contract that'd be ideal but if it's what it takes it's what it takes.

From an infinite horizon perspective, sure, you probably shouldn't sign him to that, but if you want to be relevant for the next 5 years you basically need him at this point. Not paying Lowry is basically a commitment to trading Derozan as well.

猛龙现在的情况和快船差不多，要么就一直这样半罐子晃荡，或者直接就拆散重建算了，但是重建意味着很长一段时间内球队都会处在季后赛/乐透区的边缘，也许管理层不会想要这种情形发生。猛龙现在还没到快船这样的绝境，但是简单的说，目前猛龙的计划就是在休赛期无论如何都留下伊巴卡和洛瑞，不管季后赛的情形如何。如果你能让洛瑞同意签下年数短一点的合同就很理想，但是如果你真的需要花这么多钱才能让他留下来的话，就花吧。

从超级客观的角度来看，确实，你可能不应该给他这么大的合同，但是如果你想要在未来5年里都保持竞争力，在这个时间点上你绝对需要留下洛瑞。不给洛瑞合同基本上也表明你得准备好交易德罗赞了。

[–]Lakers Bandwagonjimmcdermont 30 指標 2 天前

Optimally, should they? No.

Will they pay what they need to in order to keep him because that's their best option to stay a good team? Yes.

Also, you're picking one helluva time to post this. There'll definitely be no recency bias.

从最优的角度来说，他们应该给洛瑞顶薪吗？答案肯定是“不”。

但是他们会花这么多钱去留下洛瑞，因为他是猛龙保持竞争力最好的选择吗？答案肯定是“是”。

另外，楼主你发帖的时机也很差，球迷们肯定会因为他最近的表现而带有偏见。

[–]Celticsabrooks1125 4 指標 2 天前

No. For the same reasons I don't want the Celtics to max IT next summer. But someone will max Lowry if Toronto does, and they can't afford to let him walk for nothing after going all in to make this push.

凯蜜：不应该给顶薪，和我不想凯尔特人给小托马斯顶薪的原因一样。但是如果猛龙不给洛瑞顶薪，别人会给的，而且他们无法承受白白放走洛瑞带来的后果，尤其是已经全力以赴去提高竞争力之后。

[–]Ittybittyballers28 3 指標 2 天前

Yes. No way they can separate him from his best friend

应该给，他们没有任何道理去把洛瑞与他最好的朋友分开。

[–]Trail BlazersTheRealDevDev 3 指標 2 天前

Yesssssss Raptors fans, welcome to a similar predicament that Portland faced last year. Do we lose a player for nothing (since even by not re-signing Lowry you'll be over the cap).

You guys will sign him because you don't let assets walk for nothing once you're at or near the cap.

开拓者蜜：你们应该给顶薪，猛龙蜜们，欢迎来到和去年我们开拓者面对过的类似的困境中，我们没有白白放走任何一位球员（而且就算你们不继续和洛瑞续约，你们也已经超过工资帽了）。

你们肯定应该签下他，因为你不能白白得让球队资产流失，尤其是当你已经达到工资帽或者接近工资帽的时候。

[–][TOR] DeMar DeRozanN7Brendan 14 指標 2 天前

Recency bias ahoy (it's one game fellas)

We don't have a choice, we let him walk for nothing or sign him for 2-3 more years of his prime.

猛龙蜜：都是些受最近比赛影响而产生的偏见（这只是一场比赛啊，老哥们）。

我们没有任何选择，我们要么就白白放他走，要么就签下他，再得到他2~3年的巅峰。

[–]Spurssg_wannabe 21 指標 2 天前

Playoff Lowry has been more than one game.

季后赛洛瑞像这样的表现又不是一天两天了。

[–][TOR] DeMar DeRozanN7Brendan 6 指標 2 天前

Dude I don't fucking know, he averages pretty damn good in the season and did alright in the second and ecf last year, I have no clue why he underperforms in round 1 despite being a really good player otherwise.

朋友我真的不懂，他整个赛季都做得非常棒，去年在第二轮和东部决赛时也很好，我只是想不通为什么洛瑞总在第一轮发挥失常，尽管他是个非常棒的球员。

[–]RaptorsWatchadoinfoo 1 指標 2 天前

If we sign him to a 5 year max i'll be sad

Now, a 3 year max? With a team option on a 4th??? Now we're getting somewhere

如果我们给了洛瑞5年顶薪我会非常伤心。

但是，3年顶薪？第四年球队选项？？？这听起来还不错嘛。

Shaq and Chuck say Kawhi is better than Durant, Curry and Westbrook

沙克和巴克利都表示伦纳德比杜兰特，库里和威斯布鲁克更出色。

[–]RocketsWhydidideletemyaccou 31 指標 10小時前

Kawhi is the best 2 way player in the league, but he's gonna have to increase his points or assists if he wants to be the #1 player in the league, IMO. I would still rate Durant and LeBron above him for sure.

伦纳德是联盟中最棒的攻防俱佳的球员，但是在我心中他如果想要成为联盟第一人，还需要提高自己的得分和助攻。现在我肯定还是会把杜兰特和勒布朗排在他的前面。

[–]FranksGun 20 指標 10小時前

He just scored 32 and 37 in back to back games against a team that plays defense.

他刚刚才面对一支防守强队连续两场砍下32和37分了。

[–]RocketsWhydidideletemyaccou 31 指標 10小時前

Small sample size. He scored 25ppg and 3.5 assists throughout 74 games. I don't think that and great defense is enough to be considered the best in the league.

小的样本罢了。这赛季在他出场的74场比赛里，他场均25分3.5助攻，我不认为这个数据再加上出色的防守就能让你成为联盟第一人。

[–]gdk130 16 指標 9小時前

consider the spurs system.. points are distributed among players, even forcefully by pop. kawhi isn't treated as a one-man scoring machine every game. there's a ton of ball movement.

despite that, yes i don't think he's #1. but i just hate to hear about solely ppg without context.

考虑下马刺的体系吧...得分是被球员们分享的，或者是被波波维奇强迫着分享。不是每一场比赛伦纳德都被当成那种单人得分机器。马刺的比赛中有很多的转移球。

尽管如此，是的，我不认为他现在是联盟第一人。但是我非常讨厌那种不看背景单纯谈论得分的论调。

[–]SpursRedditThisBiatch 24 指標 9小時前*

Bruh you don't understand the Spurs offensive systems. It is made to destroy Individual Player stats.

Kawhi averaging 25pts and 3.5 ast in the Spurs system is basically 29-30pts and 6ast in basically any other team.

Why do you think Tim Duncan's career points avg is only 19pts despite how rediculously dominant he is?

Why do you think Tony Parker's career high in ast is only 6 ast despite how great of a passer he was?

Yall need to put some thought into your opinions ffs Even Coach Pop has said numerous times to the Big 3 (espicially Manu) that he apologizes for ruining their individual stats.

你们根本还不理解马刺的进攻体系，它就是为了摧毁个人数据而生的。

伦纳德在马刺的体系中能场均25分3.5助攻，基本就相当于在其他任何球队中的场均29~30分，并外加6个助攻了。

不然为什么邓肯整个职业生涯的场均得分都只有19分，尽管他拥有不可思议的统治力。

不然为什么托尼-帕克整个生涯中的场均最高助攻都只有6个，尽管他曾经是个无比出色的传球手。

你需要在形成想法前仔细想一想这些东西，就算是波波维奇本身都无数次的向GDP道过歉（尤其是马努），表示他很抱歉毁了他们的个人数据。

 [–]Spursbio_shocker 153 指標 10小時前

People that try to rank Kawhi are gonna get him more hate than anything he ever does. Every year someone ranks him higher and ppl throw a fit....right before Kawhi rises to the new standard of course :)

那些热衷给伦纳德排名的人给他招来的黑比他自己的任何行为都要多。每一年人们都会把他排打得更高一些，从而引起众怒...当然也只是刚好在伦纳德进化到新的层次之前罢了。

[–]rzpieces 75 指標 10小時前

He's definitely top 5, I'll leave it at that to avoid controversy lol

他绝对是前5的球员，我这样说应该能避免争议了，哈哈哈。

[–]RocketsBeastage 38 指標 7小時前

Devil's advocate:

LeBron

Durant

Steph

Harden

Westbrook

All of these guys are probably better than Kawhi.

我还就偏要唱反调了：

勒布朗

杜兰特

库里

哈登

威斯布鲁克

上面所有这些人可能都比伦纳德要强。

[–]rzpieces 15 指標 7小時前

Not Westbrook imo

依我看，威斯布鲁克不在其列。

[–]Hiroxis 19 指標 7小時前

Depends on what you value more. Offensively I agree that all of them are better but you can still put him over Westbrook if you consider his defense.

取决于你对哪方面看重得更多了。进攻端我同意他们都更好，但是考虑到他的防守来说。你仍然可以把伦纳德排到威少前面。

[–]RocketsDazhar 46 指標 10小時前

Argument can be made for Kawhi and Westbrook but I cant make one for putting kawhi above durant or curry for me its Lebron Durant Curry Harden Kawhi Westbrook

The last 3 are interchangeable but i put harden above those 2 cuz im biased

火蜜：伦纳德和威少到底谁强确实存在很多争论，但是我想不到任何根据去把伦纳德放在杜兰特和库里前面。

对于我来说，排名是：勒布朗，杜兰特，库里，哈登，伦纳德，威斯布鲁克。

最后三个的排名是可互换的，但是我会把哈登放在他俩前面，因为我是火蜜。

[–]Hawkspln1991 64 指標 10小時前

Westbrook, yes. Curry, maybe. Durant, no.

伦纳德肯定比威少强，也许比库里也要强，但肯定没有杜兰特强。

 [–]Bullswbl7w6 108 指標 10小時前

These guys hate Steph so much

这些人（奥胖沙克）都太黑库里了。

[–]Warriorsringmasterbro 66 指標 9小時前

girly basketball 

“少女篮球”（巴克利语录）。

[–]t_mac1 2 指標 16 分鐘前

playing both ends matter.

攻防两端的表现都很重要。

[–]WarriorsIonkkll 133 指標 10小時前

Reminder that Chuck also thinks Klay is better than Curry.

你让我想起了巴克利曾经还说克莱比库里都强。

[–]Sunsfdajj 78 指標 10小時前

Are you doubting Klay "37 pt q "signed toaster"" Thompson?

难道你在怀疑克莱-“单节37分”“烤面包机签名家”-汤普森吗？

[–]dailycrossover 18 指標 10小時前

His argument is that he'd rather have a guy that plays defense. Not my argument but his.

巴克利的论点在于他更想要一个能防守的球员，虽然不是我的观点，但是确实是他的。

[–][CHI] Taj GibsonPrancingDonkey 454 指標 10小時前

Kenny also thinks Westbrook is as good of a defender as Kawhi.

另外肯尼还认为威斯布鲁克是一名和伦纳德一样棒的防守者。

[–]BullsTheLonelyRedPanda 30 指標 10小時前

literally contested the least amount of shots this nba season

实际上这赛季威少干扰投篮的数量排联盟倒数第一。

[–][GSW] Draymond Greenbricktamland48 26 指標 9小時前

Just... what? Does he realize that Kawhi might go down as the GOAT perimeter defender? How could he possibly think that?

。。。什么啊？难道肯尼没有意识到伦纳德可能最终成为NBA历史上最伟大的外线防守者吗？为什么他会有一丝丝的想法觉得威少和伦纳德防守一样棒。

[–][SAS] Danny Greendiffeqmaster 43 指標 10小時前

To be fair that's not what he said. He said westbrook plays defense.

Which he does technically do but durant would have been my example of another two way guy.

讲道理这不是肯尼的原话，他只是说威少也能防守。

威少有时候也确实能防守，但是杜兰特才是我心中另外一个攻防俱佳的球员。

[–]Buckstheconfuserx2 183 指標 10小時前

Kawhi will probably never even hear about this, and if he does, I doubt he'd even care

伦纳德可能永远都不会听到这些东西，就算他听到了，我觉得他根本就不会在乎。

[–][DAL] Dirk NowitzkiAs1anPersuas10n 115 指標 10小時前

Reggie just said he's better than LeBron, lol

雷吉-米勒刚刚还说他比勒布朗强，哈哈哈。

[–]Bucks Bandwagonstilltippin444 32 指標 10小時前

Worst take I've ever heard

这是我所听到过的最糟糕的见解。

翻译：@西布杨

Allen Iverson drops 100 points through seven straight quarters of the 2001 playoffs: 26 in the 4th quarter of Game 6 of the ECF, 44 in Game 7, 30 in the 1st half of Game 1 of the Finals (youtube.com)

阿伦-艾弗森在2001年季后赛中连续7节的得分达到了100：东部决赛G6的第四节砍下26分，G7砍下44分，总决赛G1的上半场就砍下30分。

[–][MIN] Ricky RubioGoochNibbler 186 指標 4 月前 

It seems that pretty much any time AI is brought up on /r/nba and compared against other all-time greats he gets a ton of criticism for how inefficient he was and how his game wouldn't translate to the modern NBA - there was a recent post about his standing in historical rankings and I had an exchange in the comments with someone who claimed sincerely that he could probably think of 10 current bench players he'd rather have on his team than AI (I realize this isn't by any means a popular opinion, but it made me angry so I'm going to bring it up anyway) - but AI dragging a Sixers team whose other best players were Theo Ratliff and the corpse of Dikembe Mutombo to the finals and dropping 48 in game 1 of the finals to shock one of the most dominant teams of all time and deny them the only perfect playoff run in NBA history will forever be one of of the most impressive inpidual feats pulled off by an NBA player. Flawed as he may have been, AI was pound for pound one of the greatest to ever play the game.

看上去好像每次艾弗森在shh里被提出来与其他传奇巨星相比时，他都会得到无数的批评，人们说他的比赛方式是多么的低效，以及无法适应现在NBA的发展潮流——前几天还有个帖子在讨论艾弗森的历史排名，然后我与一个人发生了激烈的争吵，他认真的表示自己可以找到10个现在联盟中的板凳球员去取代艾弗森在球队的位置，而且他宁愿要他们而不是艾弗森（我意识到这肯定不会是个受欢迎的观点，但是这让我非常生气，所以我还是要再提一 遍）——艾弗森拖着那支76人—剩下的最好球员是西奥-拉特利夫和差不多成为一具尸体的穆托姆博—进入了总决赛。并在总决赛G1中砍下了48分，这震撼到了历史上最有统治力的二人组之一，并让他们没能完成NBA历史上最完美的季后赛表演，这将永远成为历史上最震撼的个人成就之一。尽管他曾经有着很多缺陷，艾弗森绝对是篮球历史上最伟大的球员之一。

[–]Lakersxodus112 34 指標 4 月前 

I'm not the biggest AI fan, but whoever said there were 10 bench players better than him in today's NBA is someone who shouldn't be listened to. That said, you're downplaying Mutombo, who won the DPOY that season. That's hardly a corpse by any standard. AI is a guy that I often see grossly overrated or underrated. I've seen people say he's top-10 all-time, which is absurd to me. Then there are people who act like he was a scrub. AI was an amazing talent but he was also one of the most flawed superstars in NBA history, imo.

我不是最铁杆的艾弗森球迷，但是任何说现在的NBA里有10个板凳球员比他厉害的人，我们都不应该听他继续说话了。就算是这样，但是你贬低了穆托姆博，他那个赛季拿了DPOY，从任何标准来说那个赛季的穆托姆博都不是一具尸体。我经常会看到艾弗森被疯狂的贬低或者被极度的吹捧。我见过人们说他是历史前10的球员，这对我来说非常荒谬。但是然后又有人觉得他就是个垃圾。在我看来，艾弗森有着惊人的天赋，但是他同时也是NBA历史上缺陷最大的超级球星之一。

[–]COMMENT_DESERVES_Au 33 指標 4 月前 

Completely agree, an NBA GOAT for sure.

完全赞同，肯定是NBA历史上最伟大的球员之一。

[–]Chinaski14 23 指標 4 月前 

Growing up in the Philly area this guy was not a basketball player, he was a god. On the playground it was always who was "Kobe" and who was "AI"...anyone who thinks this guy wasn't an all time great is crazy. There are many things Allen Iverson is not, but a fantastic basketball player is not one of them. Dude is a legend.

在费城长大的我知道这家伙已经不仅仅是个篮球运动员了，他简直就是神。在运动场上人们要么支持科比，要么就是艾弗森的铁杆球迷...任何一个不认为艾弗森是历史最伟大球员之一的人都是疯子。虽然艾弗森在很多事情上做的都不好，但是一个出色的篮球运动员绝对不是其中之一。这家伙是个传奇。

[–][PHI] Andrew Toney40Vert 7 指標 4 月前 

For those that misunderstood: Ratliff was traded for Mutombo, they weren't A.I's teammates at the same time

对于那些产生误解的：西奥-拉特利夫是被用来去交易而得到穆托姆博的，他俩并没有同时成为艾弗森的队友。

[–]WarriorsOfficialSamOfTheNBA 11 指標 4 月前 

To me, AI was the most fearless player of all time. The dude would get mauled on every drive and keep coming back for more. I truly love that part of AI's game.

对于我来说，艾弗森是历史上最无畏的球员之一。每一次突破他身上都会增加一道淤青，但他只会继续 朝你冲来。艾弗森的比赛的这一特点让我非常喜爱。

[–]76ersColeTrickleVroom 8 指標 4 月前 

Shaq touched on it in his HOF speech saying AI was the one guy who when Shaq would knock him down as a message to say "Don't come in here" Iverson would keep coming back and eventually Shaq would end up on the bench in foul trouble.

Iverson was tough as nails.

沙克在他的名人堂演讲说，艾弗森是那种突破到内线后他会放倒的家伙，他会这样做从而告诉艾弗森“ 别再进来这里了”，但是艾弗森还是会一次又一次的突破进来，最终沙克便会因为犯规麻烦而坐在板凳席上。

艾弗森坚韧如钉。

[–][PHI] Allen IversonJeeReG 39 指標 4 月前 

The people who shit on Iverson never watched him play

那些喷艾弗森的人从来没看过他打球。

[–]PistonsBlacksheepoftheworld 4 指標 4 月前 

When someone downplays AI in a conversation, that's where I end the basketball conversation. At that point I realize, they don't know what the fuck they are talking about anymore.

每当有人在谈话中贬低艾弗森时，我就会结束这次关于篮球的交谈。因为那时我就会意识到，他们根本不知道自己在说什么了。

[–]Pistonsspalding1250 9 指標 4 月前 

Man I miss AI. Dude was really smooth

大兄弟我想念艾弗森，这家伙太顺滑了。

[–]NWSlushi 12 指標 4 月前 

He made me want to get cornrows... And I'm white.

他让我想去弄个玉米辫...尽管我是白人。

[–]WizardsExoguana 3 指標 4 月前 

Porzingis did it. Why can't you?

波尔津吉斯就这样做过，你为什么不能弄一个呢？

[–][PHI] Andrew Toney40Vert 2 指標 4 月前 

That 26 point 4th quarter is the third highest in playoff history IIRC. That game was a blowout by half time (I think it was a 30 point lead for the Bucks). Ray was killing the Sixers with devastating threes, they sat Iverson for the third till he said "Put me back in" and he attempted a comeback preventing the Bucks from cruising to a victory.

艾弗森第四节的26分应该是季后赛历史上第三高的得分记录，如果我没记错的话。那场比赛半场的时候已经花了（我记得雄鹿已经领先了大概30分吧）。雷-阿伦用他致命的三分摧毁着76人，76人第三节一直让艾弗森在场下休息，直到他自己说“让我上吧”，然后就上演了大逆转，没让雄鹿拿到最后的胜利。

Westbrook is both the only reason his team is in this game but also the reason his team is going to lose this game (self.nba)

威少既是这支雷霆能够紧咬比分的原因，但同时也是他的球队输掉比赛的原因。

是的，他已经拿到了47分，但是这家伙在不停地强行出手投篮，同时总想着造犯规...从某种角度来说，他在关键时刻强行大量出手这种垃圾投篮，以及不给队友传球的行为已经伤害到了自己的球队。

第四节18中4...

显然威少是雷霆能在这个场地上打球的唯一原因，但是他处理关键球的方式确实值得商榷。

注：我想最后说几点，因为看上去这是个非常有争议的帖子...威少花了43次出手去拿到51分，同时得到了18次罚球。我们在谈的是一场效率非常低的比赛。他在第四节里18中4，在关键时刻仍然拒绝传球。当威少想要出手糟糕的受干扰投篮时，像麦克德莫特这样的队友正处在底角的超级大空位中...在你们告诉我麦克德莫特很垃圾之前，他在这场比赛三分球可是4中3。在某些时候，你需要把球传给空位的队友。我宁愿让麦克德莫特在大空位下出手一记三分，也不想看到你们球队投篮糟糕的超级球星连续8次在受干扰的情况下出手糟糕的跳投。

这场比赛威少本来在传球上做的非常好（在前三节）。你们想知道什么时候的雷霆是最可怕的吗？正是当威少让队友都参与到进攻中的时候。在第四节他完全偏离了这一方向，然后比赛就从只差2~3分的拉锯战变成了火箭领先10~12分。

在我最近的印象中，威少好像是那种少数的每次犯错都会被放过的超级球星之一。这有点让我感到困惑，43投51分？就好像你是认真的吗？威少在关键时刻直接用糟糕的投篮葬送了胜利，我想这是不是太糟糕了一点。

另外上一个福利，看看这个世界级别的防守吧，这家伙在第四节对贝弗利没有任何一点防守。威少太习惯去抢篮板从而他能拿到三双了，唉有点搞笑，但只是感到很痛心。

Yes, he's got 47 but the dude is forcing shot after shot trying to draw foul after foul... At a certain point he's hurting his team down the stretch by forcing garbage shots and refusing to pass the ball.

4/18 in the fourth quarter....

Obviously he's the sole reason the Thunder are even in this game but something has to be said for his play down the stretch.

EDIT of the edits: the last points that I'll make here since this seems to be such a controversial post and I rustled a lot of jimmies.. Westbrook took 43 shots to get 51 points. He also took 18 free throws. Talk about a terribly inefficient game. He was 4/18 in the fourth quarter and refused to pass the ball down the stretch. Guys like McDermott were standing wide open in the corner but Westbrook wanted to take bad contested jumpers.. By the way, before you tell me McDermott sucks, he was 3/4 from behind the arc in this game. At a certain point, you have to give your teammates open looks. I'd rather have a wide open McDermott three than a terrible contested shot 8 possessions in a row by your bad jump shooting super star.

Westbrook had a great game passing the basketball too (in the first three quarters). Guess when the Thunder were playing their best? When Westbrook was getting his other guys involved. He completely went away from that in the fourth quarter and the game went from a back and forth 2-3 point game to a 10-12 point lead by the Rockets.

Russell Westbrook seems to be one of the few super stars of recent memory that gets a pass every time he makes poor decisions. It kind of boggles my mind. 43 shots to get 51 points? Like are you serious? Lmao WB shot his team right out of the game down the stretch but hey I guess that's just too bad

OH AND A BONUS FOR YA? CHECK OUT THIS WORLD CLASS DEFENSE Dude didn't play a lick of defense on Beverly in the fourth. WB so used to trying to get the rebound so he can get triple doubles lmao just sad

[–]Ayyylmaowhat 1608 指標 12小時前

My mom: "Westbrook is shooting in despair"

我的母亲：“威少正在绝望的投篮。”

[–]Timberwolvescjsplash[S] 195 指標 12小時前

Your mom is a smart lady

你妈妈是个聪明的女人。

[–]Ayyylmaowhat 211 指標 12小時前

She also said "no not in desperation, in despair" when I asked for clarification

当我问她具体是什么意思时，她还表示“不是奋力一搏，而只是绝望”。

[–]ClippersTestFixation 142 指標 11小時前

Desperation is the Lakers needing a top 3 pick in order to keep it.

Despair is the Nets already having traded it away.

奋力一搏是指湖人需要拿到前3的顺位才能保留这个选秀权。

绝望是指已经把选秀权交易出去了的篮网。

[–]WarriorsPunchyMcFisticuffs 30 指標 10小時前

Desperation is when you're about to lose so you do anything you can to stay alive.

Despair is when you already know you're dead. He might still be fighting but he doesn't think he can win.

奋力一搏是指你即将死去，然后你尽所有可能去保持生命。

绝望是指你已经知道你死了。威少可能仍然在抗争，但是他不认为自己能赢了。

[–][GSW] Zaza PachuliaDisgruntledAlpaca 69 指標 12小時前

If anything, it demonstrates the issue. Since the entire offense is Rus controlled, the moment he's off the court the engine is gone.

如果有任何事情能够解释这个问题的话，那就是雷霆整个进攻都是由威少掌控的，从他下场的那一刻开始，球队的引擎就没了。

[–]ironflagNZ 26 指標 8小時前

It makes sense, a lot of the guys looked scared to take good Shots. The only people aren't are Gibson (vet and new to the team) and Kanter (only other person who can create and knows he has a green light).... Kinda makes sense.

Adams never looks like he wants to score, Dipo has been Beta all year.

这有些道理，很多雷霆的球员看起来都非常害怕去出手机会不错的投篮。唯一例外的就是吉布森（老将，而且刚加入球队）和坎特（另外球员中唯一一个能自己创造机会并知道自己享有绿灯的人）...看起来很有道理。

亚当斯看起来从来不想去得分，奥拉迪波则在一整个赛季里都处于打下手的位置。

[–]HeatACNL 140 指標 10小時前

hell yeah it did. ffs the coach (whoever is fking leading that team, god knows if someone is actually steering or if westbrook is the real bus driver) needs to just look at what happened when he sat westbrook. THE TEAM COLLAPSED cuz they were not used to playing without westbrook. ERROR 404 POPPED UP IN ALL THEIR HEADS. saddest thing I have ever seen.

真见鬼，但确实是这样，真心希望教练（任何一个实际上领导这支球队的人，天知道实际上有没有人在为球队掌舵，或者说威少才是真正有权利的人）去仔细看看当威少下场后局面发生了什么变化。整支球队都崩塌了，因为他们不习惯在没有威少时打球，每个人的脑子在当时都短路了，真是我所见过的最沮丧的事情。

[–][CLE] Kevin LoveThat_Ohio_Guy 830 指標 12小時前

Story of their season

这就是雷霆整个赛季的缩影。

[–][MIA] Harold Minerparadoxofchoice 521 指標 12小時前

story of his career. he is the double edged sword.

也是威少生涯的缩影，他是把双刃剑。

[–]Rocketslovetape 1044 指標 12小時前

you could say...

he's a Tripple-Double Edged Sword

你其实可以说...

他是把三刃剑...

[–]Rockets Bandwagonbuddha_abusa 76 指標 11小時前

Russell Westbrook: The cause of, and solution to, all of the Thunder's problems.

拉塞尔-威斯布鲁克：雷霆所有问题的起源和解决方法。

[–]ThunderIsntmatt 569 指標 12小時前

You could see he was pissed when he went to the bench and they lost the 12 point lead in 60 seconds.

当威少被换下场时你能看到他很生气，然后雷霆在60秒内就葬送了12分的领先。

[–]CavaliersDeanBlandino 413 指標 11小時前

They probably forgot how to play basketball after standing around all season watching him do shit. He does not improve his teammates at all. Just look at the 4th quarter... he was atrocious and still wouldn't let them shoot. Any player on OKC could have shot better than him in the 4th and they would have won.

在整个赛季都看着威少大包大揽后，他的队友们可能已经忘了怎么去打球了。威少根本没有提升自己的队友，就看看第四节吧...他的状态非常糟糕，但是仍然不给队友们机会去投篮。只要有一个队友在第四节的手感比威少好，他们就能赢下比赛。

[–]thou_shalt_wander 171 指標 11小時前

Twice he shot contested threes when McDermott was standing wide open

在迈克德莫特处在大空位的情况下，威少强行出手了两次受干扰的三分球。

[–]RocketsHyperactivity786 100 指標 12小時前

Westbrook was playing crazy good early in the game as a facilitator.

Not even joking, the lineups with Westbrook on them, when he was focusing on passing the ball, had been so fucking deadly at the beginning of the game. He had 10 assists at the half

火蜜：在比赛刚开始的时候，威少作为一名分享者，打出了惊人的表现。

不是开玩笑，比赛早期当雷霆的在场上的阵容有威少，而且当他开始专注于传球时，他们太致命了。半场威少就拿了10个助攻。

[–]Spursnoj776 92 指標 9小時前

And 3 the rest of the game. Thats the EXACT problem. He stopped being a facilitator and decided to play hero ball. No one on that team is going to tell him no, and no one on that team trusts themselves because their superstar doesnt trust them.

然后剩下的时间里他只拿了3个，这正是原因所在。他停止了分享球，开始打英雄球了。雷霆没有人想要告诉威少别这么打，没有人相信他们自己能命中投篮，因为球队的超级球星就不相信他们。

[–]Warriorssobizzle 62 指標 7小時前

Almost like he got the double digit assists and rebounds and then said "now I just keep shooting and we win"

就好像他先让自己的篮板和助攻上双，然后便说“好了，现在我就要开始无限出手了，然后我们会拿下比赛的”。

[–]RocketsHyperactivity786 20 指標 9小時前

Dude, I was so fucking scared that first half. So fucking scared. He was passing like Harden at his best, getting EVERYONE involved, etc.

火蜜：朋友，我在第一节时真的非常害怕，太可怕了，他的传球就好像哈登状态最佳时最能做到的那样，让每一个人都参与到了比赛当中，等等。

[–]Knicks Bandwagonarvs17 32 指標 6小時前

That's the difference between them to be honest. Harden sure takes control when crunch time but he still makes the right play. Lets say you swap Harden with Westbrook, Harden will definitely pass to the open McDermott rather than forcing a contested shot.

其实这就是威少和哈登之间的区别，哈登在关键时刻确实会接管比赛，但是他仍然会做出正确的选择。我们就说把哈登和威少互换一下吧，哈登绝对会把球传给空位的迈克德莫特，而不是出手一记对抗下的投篮。

[–]NBAFuck-The-Modz 200 指標 12小時前

Live by the Bestbrook, die by the Westbrick

生也手感好的威少，死也打铁的威少。

[–][GSW] Chris Mullintemp_achil 87 指標 10小時前

If you can't handle him at his worstbrook, you don't deserve him at his bestbrook.

如果你不能在他最艰难时支持他走出困境，你就不值得拥有最好的威少。

[–]OKC HornetsFuzzCuz 579 指標 12小時前

Did you see what happened when he was on the bench? The team can't do anything offensively when he isn't on the court.

你看到威少下场后雷霆的表现了吗？当他下场后，这支球队在进攻端做不了任何事情。

[–]HeatDolfanz019 443 指標 12小時前

Westbrook left the game for like a minute & the Rockets go on a 7-0 run right away lol. You could see Westbrook saying "put me back in" angry as hell

威少下场了一分钟，火箭立即就打了一波7-0，哈哈哈。你能想象到威少非常生气的说“快让我回去！”。

[–]Thunder BandwagonDongsquad420BlazeIt 239 指標 12小時前

He was +11 in 41 minutes. I feel so sorry for him.

威少在41分钟里的正负值为+11，我为这家伙感到惋惜。

[–]MavericksDouchebag_Dave 133 指標 10小時前*

Gibson and Adams were +17 and +18. I think the main reason for them being down wasn't Westbrook going off, but their horrible big man rotation (their second unit sucks).

edit: And that they have no play maker for the second unit. And I just realized Kanter played only 7 mins among other coaching mistakes. Poor OKC.

吉布森和亚当斯的正负值却达到了+17和+18啊。我认为雷霆落后最主要的问题不是威少哑火了，而是他们糟糕的大个子轮换（他们的第二阵容太烂了）。

注：而且在第二阵容里他们没有任何组织者，我刚刚才意识到在这么多教练的失误中，坎特只打了7分钟。可怜的雷霆。

[–]ThunderFuckingLoveArborDay 119 指標 10小時前

Kanter basically can't play when Harden's on the floor. Houston is too good at getting Harden into 1-on-1 matchups with Kanter.

当哈登在场上时坎特绝对不能上，火箭太擅长让哈登得到与坎特1v1的机会了。

[–][PHI] Jumaine Jonesronaldo119 59 指標 10小時前

Yea we literally saw it last game Billy Donovan said "Kanter can't be out there" after like the 5th time in a row he got roasted

是的，上场比赛在坎特连续被打进了五个球，被火箭烤熟之后，我们也听到多诺万自己说“坎特不能在场上”。

[–]Raptorspkthunderous 307 指標 12小時前

just because they're bad when hes off the court, doesnt mean when hes on the court he needs to take every shot.

look at the shooting percentages of their players this game, they're mostly decent. when westbrook is off the court, its more that they cant get good looks. so when westbrook is on the court, as their point guard he should be getting those good looks for his teammates and not just him shooting.

就算雷霆的队友在威少下场后很糟糕，也不意味着他上场后每一球都得自己来。

看看他队友这场比赛的命中率吧，绝大部分都很好。当威少下场时，他们更多的是得不到空位的机会，所以当他回到场上后，作为球队的控卫，他应该为队友创造空位，而不是简单的自己射。

[–]Rocketsitsbarron 255 指標 12小時前

I wouldnt say he was the reason they lost. he just couldn't close it out

火蜜：我不会说威少是雷霆输球的原因，他只是没有能够终结比赛罢了。

[–][OKC] Russell Westbrookbrooke_davis 170 指標 12小時前

it's amazing how most rockets fans seem to be the only ppl to understand that this loss wasn't on russ.

雷蜜：非常惊讶的事情就是为什么大多数的火蜜才是论坛上唯一能够理解这场失利不怪威少的人。

[–]HeatCrashoff 129 指標 12小時前

Cause they're about the only other people on here who actually watched the game..

因为他们大概是除了雷霆球迷之外论坛中唯一看了比赛的人群吧...

[–]Rocketshyakubi205 115 指標 12小時前

I was just about ready to throw my phone at the wall when he had that long ass stretch where he just made every single mid range jumper

在威少手感火热的那段非常长的时间里，我都已经准备要摔手机了，他就是能投进每一个跳投。

[–]RocketsCrazM 63 指標 12小時前

Because we saw this with Harden pre Dwight. Took Harden a while to stop playing heroball and freezing everyone out in the fourth.

火蜜：因为我们在霍华德到来之前也在哈登身上看到了一模一样的事情，哈登花了好久才停止了在第四节里打英雄球，从而封锁住了所有的队友。

[–][OKC] Russell Westbrooksir_alvarex 17 指標 11小時前

It's about having a 2nd and 3rd option you know you can trust. Plus extra spacing.

I think the Thunder will get there. Just hope it's within 2 seasons.

关键在于球队中存在你所信赖的第2选择或是第3选择，加上球场上为你拉开的额外空间。

我认为雷霆总会到达那里的，希望在两个赛季之内吧。

If Paul George is going to leave, and thats a big IF, where is he likely to end up? (self.nba)

如果保罗-乔治想要离开步行者，当然这是个很大的“如果”，他最终会选择哪支球队呢？

there has been plenty of discussions circulating that he will go to the Lakers but that is not exactly a ring chasing team to go gravitating towards. he was a fan of clips growing up so thats a possibility? no money to go around though, where else could he end up?

最近有很多围绕着乔治的流言都说他会去湖人，但是这并不是一支追求总冠军的球队，对乔治没有那么大的吸引力。在他成长的过程中，乔治一直是名快船的粉丝，所以有没有可能他去快船呢？虽然离开去其他的球队肯定会少拿很多钱，那么除了上述的球队外他还有可能去哪里呢？

[–]LakersYaBoiBeefCat 7 指標 10小時前

The Clippers will either be in luxury tax hell or an unattractive destination.

快船要么就付天价奢侈税，否则对乔治来说就是个没有吸引力的目的地。

[–]ClippersNuggetsbecrispy 7 指標 9小時前

No worries, we've got a 20 billionaire owner

船蜜：别担心，我们有个身价200亿美元的老板。

[–]LakersYaBoiBeefCat 2 指標 9小時前

I mean they can't actually sign him, they wouldn't have the space. He's not a FA this year, and Griffin and CP3 are due for deal this offseason. It's impossible.

我的意思是快船在现实中不可能签下乔治，他们没有薪金空间了。而且今年乔治也不是个自由球员，同时这个休赛期保罗和格里芬的合同都要到期，再签下乔治是不可能的事情。

[–]youblewwit 29 指標 9小時前

He ain't going to the Lakers to continue losing. He'll join a playoff team in hopes of contending for a title a la Durant.

Don't get it twisted though, he'll still be looking for his max.

他不会去湖人从而继续输球了，他会加入一支季后赛级别的球队，从而寄希望能争夺总冠军，就像杜兰特那样。

不过别搞错了，他仍然会追求拿到自己的顶薪。

[–]WarriorseBelieve 28 指標 9小時前

Never count out the Heat in situations like these. Dragic,Waiters,George, James Johnson and Whiteside would be a force.

在这种情况下永远不要忘了热火。德拉季奇，维特斯，乔治，詹姆斯-约翰逊和大白边将会是一股恐怖的力量。

[–]Trail Blazerstsolyats 14 指標 9小時前

Blazers, of course! Isn't that where he is rumored to want to go, just like all superstars?

开拓者蜜：当然是开拓者啊！难道不是有谣传说他想来开拓者吗，就像所有的那些超级球星一样？

[–]Warriorscatalba 4 指標 8小時前

All superstars are rumored to be headed to Boston. You know that.

所有的超级球星都被谣传说想加入波士顿，你知道这点的。

[–]Celticsbrutage 11 指標 9小時前

Probably gonna stack on some good west team leaving the east even more barren.

也许会加入一支西部的豪强，让东部的天赋变得更加贫瘠。

[–][PHO] Devin BookerDBook1 78 指標 9小時前

Golden State

勇士。

[–]Warriorsuntouchable765 66 指標 9小時前

Vet min 10 year long deal with team options only.

勇蜜：签个10年老将底薪合同，外加只有球队选项。

[–]JazzKyllen 15 指標 9小時前

I think it's obvious. He said he wants to play with Hayward...clearly going to Utah

爵士蜜：我觉得这是很显然的，乔治说他想和海伍德一起打球...所以很清楚他会去犹他啦。

[–]Jazzplay_that_funkymusic 5 指標 8小時前

And reuniting with George Hill. It would be beautiful.

同时和乔治-希尔团聚，这太棒了。

[–]Nets Bandwagonbeerusarus 35 指標 9小時前

Houston ? He can join James Harden and his all star supporting cast, he might have to take a backseat to future HOF Eric Gordon.

火箭？乔治可以和哈登联手，外加哈登的一帮全明星级别的帮手，不过他也许会给未来的名人堂成员埃里克-戈登让让位。

[–]Nets Bandwagonbeerusarus 25 指標 9小時前

Real talk thou he'd be good in houston imo

讲真，我觉得他在休斯顿会打的很不错。

[–]Chillikettlechips[S] 13 指標 9小時前

it would be a massive upgrade over Ariza although a very expensive one

那将会是一个超级升级版的阿里扎，尽管很贵罢了。

[–]San Diego RocketsBuntRuntCunt 7 指標 9小時前

Plus, PG has demonstrated his love of strippers and everyone knows Houston has the best strip clubs.

另外，乔治自己也表示过了对于脱衣舞女郎的喜爱，而且每个人都知道休斯顿有着全国最棒的脱衣舞俱乐部。

[–][HOU] James HardenEnterAdman 12 指標 9小時前

Don't tease me like this

火蜜：别像这样戏弄我。

[–][HOU] James HardenTheLordOfTheKappas 9 指標 9小時前

come PG you know you want to grow a beard and form the next bearded Bros

火蜜：来吧乔治，你知道你自己也想留个大胡子，一起组成下一个胡子天团吧！

[–]Rocketsstack24 7 指標 9小時前

We can all dream. It would be a perfect piece.

火蜜：每个人都可以梦想，乔治将会是块非常不错的拼图。

[–]Cavaliershennyjokes 40 指標 10小時前

He is coming to THE LAND to be with his father finally

骑蜜：乔治会来到克利夫兰从而终于和自己的爸爸联手了。

[–]Cavalierskaprrisch 1 指標 9小時前

Prince George?

乔治王子？

[–][MIL] Giannis AntetokounmpoWIN011 24 指標 9小時前

Or the Bucks so he can conquer his father with a Greek god guiding the way.

雄鹿蜜：或者去雄鹿，这样他便能在希腊天神的带领下击败自己的爸爸了。

[–]WarriorsNuclearAdobo 13 指標 10小時前

I think it's highly likely that he's gonna go to the west.

我觉得很有可能乔治会去西部。

[–]Chillikettlechips[S] 21 指標 10小時前

to get away from LeHairline

从而逃离勒布朗的发际线。

[–]Rocketsdryflakybutthole 20 指標 10小時前

The west has gsw which is worse

西部有勇士，这更糟。

[–]WarriorsNuclearAdobo 1 指標 9小時前

Can OKC afford him?

雷霆能要得起乔治吗？

[–]Rocketsblackfishfilet 7 指標 9小時前

They could always shed Kanter/Adams/Dipo's contracts. But seeing Westbrook play with Durant and then Westbrook by himself, why in the world would he want to go there?

他们总是能够甩掉坎特/亚当斯/奥拉迪波的合同，但是在看了威斯布鲁克与杜兰特一起打球，以及后来威少自己单干后，为什么乔治会有一丝想去雷霆的想法呢？

[–]WarriorsYouAintKobe 2 指標 9小時前

Sad to see. Almost all the best talent is in the west.

看到这很难过，几乎所有最优秀的天赋都在西部。

[–]WizardsblitzKriegzzz 6 指標 3小時前

Wall-Beal-George-Morris-Mahinmi ... would be really fucking good offensively and defensively ...

奇才蜜：沃尔-比尔-乔治-莫里斯-马辛米...这套阵容会在攻防两端都出奇的强。

[–]Bullshimynameisroger 2 指標 3小時前

Thats a championship contender 100%. I'd be okay with it.

这百分之百是一套争冠阵容了，我感觉能接受。

[–]Wizardsdpayne360 2 指標 2小時前

Damn bro now you got me erect at work

奇才蜜：见鬼大兄弟，你让我在上班时硬了。

[–][IND] Paul Georgewatdapau 2 指標 10小時前

Sixers. I hope he stays on the east, LBJ vs PG is always entertaining

Indy still has a year to surround PG good talent, Bird should be ready to spend or lose a talent like George who can go head to head against lebron fucking James

去76人啊。我希望他能留在东部，勒布朗vs乔治永远是精彩的对决。

但是步行者仍然有一年的时间去围绕乔治建队，伯德要准备好去交易或者失去这位拥有面对面正刚勒布朗天赋的球员——保罗-乔治。

[–]ClippersNuggetsbecrispy 1 指標 9小時前

It's entertaining, but he's gotta get sick of that matchup

确实很有欣赏性，但是乔治会厌倦了这样的对决的。

[–][IND] Paul Georgewatdapau 1 指標 8小時前

He sure is. He said that already. He is tired of losing to lebron. Literally Paul is James small brother. No one in the east or the entire nba can match up with lbj the way Paul does. So we should hope PG stays in Indy or any in the east teams

步行者蜜：他绝对会，乔治也已经这样说过了，他厌倦了一直输给勒布朗。就好像乔治已经是勒布朗的小兄弟了一样。东部甚至全NBA没有任何这样的球员，能够像乔治这样的方式和勒布朗硬刚。所以我们应该希望乔治留在步行者，或者是其他东部的任何球队。

 [–][IND] Rik SmitsKyleRaynerGotSweg 1 指標 10小時前

If he leaves after next season then it's a toss up, if we trade him the only two teams with the assets really are Boston and LA.

步行者蜜：如果他下赛季结束之后选择离开的话，对于我们来说就是个艰难的选择了，如果我们现在交易乔治的话，只有两支球队有着足够的资产——凯尔特人和湖人。

[–]Trail Blazersiamthegraham 1 指標 3小時前

If you trade him it's because you're pretty sure you're going to lose him for nothing, which would drive down his price. There'd definitely be more than 2 teams in the mix at that point.

如果你们交易乔治，那肯定是因为你们已经确信了将会白白失去他，而这一点会降低他的交易价值。在那种情形下，拥有足够资产的球队绝对不止上面这两支。

[–]Celticsvagrantwade 1 指標 10小時前

Lakers would have to gut their roster to make that happen.

湖人会把他们的阵容搞得乱七八糟才能交易到乔治。

[–][IND] Rik SmitsKyleRaynerGotSweg 1 指標 9小時前

Yeah which makes Boston more likely than anything, only time will tell though.

是的，这就让凯尔特人看上去像是最有可能得到乔治的球队了，但是只有时间会告诉我们结果。

翻译：@西布杨