----------------------------------------------------
[–]ClippersMothershipConnection 371 points 9 hours ago
The big guys with actual skills and athleticism will survive.The guys who were great centers in the past would absolutely KILL in this era. You don't think David Robinson or Hakeem would put up Anthony Davis numbers plus have actual post moves? Or a fit and motivated Shaq surrounded by the shooters we have today? That would be unfair to have him rolling off a pick & roll or going one on one down low.
It also kills me to see people act like the Warriors' Lineup Of Death lineup is totally unprecedented or see oldheads try and discredit it when the 96 Bulls were basically doing the same thing. Rodman played a lot of center with Kukoc at the 4 while Draymond is basically doing what Rodman did plus 3 point shooting (and minus some rebounding/crazy hair). Only difference is that if the 96 Bulls were around in 2016 more of Michael and Scottie's shots would have come a few feet further out behind the line.
有技术和运动能力的大个子球员都能生存下去。过去那些伟大中锋绝对在这个年代会大杀特杀。你认为真正有低位技术的大卫罗宾逊或者奥拉朱旺没法在现今打出浓眉的数据？ 一个健康体型的勤奋鲨，围绕他身边安排射手在现今会是怎样？让他们挡拆后内切或者高低位一打一不要太开挂哦。
看到有人说勇士的死亡小个阵容是前所未有、或者有老古董试图贬低他们，我就受不了，明明96年的公牛基本上也做过同样的事情。库科奇上场打4号位的时候，罗德曼经常打中锋，而追梦格林基本上就是在做罗德曼做的事情，附加能投3分的能力（再减去一些篮板能力和疯狂的头型）。 唯一的区别是如果96年的公牛放在2016年，乔丹和皮蓬的投篮会在罚球线后面更远些的距离。
[–]CavaliersSEC_North 131 points 8 hours ago
It's gonna be cyclical. I was a kid growing up with the 80s and 90s NBA, this was near the end of the golden age for classic Bigs, guys like Robinsin, Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, with Robert Parrish and Kareem on the down slope of their careers when I was super little. Back then basic offensive philosophy dictated getting the ball to your dominant big, have him take high-percentage shots all the time. Then in the late 90s and early 2000s you suddenly get future HOF PFs who can spread the court and shoot, like KG, Dirk, Duncan, etc. and emphasis spread to them. Fast forward over a decade later and this shift has been taken to the extreme as teams evolved to put up sharpshooters and take low-percentage shots through a spread court (i.e. what the Warriors and Cavs are doing now).
Pretty soon you're going to start seeing a shift back to traditional big men (providing there are enough dominant Cs available) where someone will have the "epiphany" of thinking "Wait, why are all these teams wasting their shots on low-percentage shots near the arc? Why don't we shrink the court, get the ball down to the post for some high-percentage shots, and slow down the tempo to control them?" And then we'll see teams adapting this when it eventually works.
And so it goes.
这就是个周期循环。我还小的时候是伴随着80年代和90年代的NBA长大的，接近于属于经典大个子的黄金年代的尾声，诸如罗宾逊，尤因，大梦，奥尼尔，还有帕里什和贾巴尔生涯的末期，那时候我还超级小。 那时候的进攻哲学就是把球交给有统治力的大个子，一直让他们进行更高命中率的出手。然后是90年代末期和00年代初期，突然间未来名人堂级的大前锋群出现了，他们能拉开场地空间，能投篮，比如加内特，德克，邓肯等等。重心一下转移到了他们身上。再之后又过了10年，重心变成了拥有犀利投手的那些球队，在来开的空间里进行投篮命中率更低的出手。（就是现在勇士骑士所做的那样）。
很快你就会看到再回归到传统大个子的局面（假设出现足够有统治力的中锋们），到时候人们会想：为什么要把重心放在命中率更低的3分线外呢？为什么我们不压缩场地空间、让球打到命中率更高的低位区域、降低节奏控制节奏呢？ 等到这样真的奏效时，我们会看到球队的调整的转换的。
然后再继续循环。
[–]Lakerseek711 17 points 7 hours ago
The problem isn't players or predominant styles. It's the rules of the game and the way the game is officiated that has changed.
You'll never see a shift back to the "traditional" big man unless the rules revert themselves. You simply can't play methodically and slowly in the paint with an old-fashioned big backing up the other big without him getting harassed by some long armed wing or darty guard. This isn't to say big men can't be good. Last nights OKC vs. GSW game shows how valuable height and size can be. However, the driving force of good teams won't be back to the basket plodding low post players.
The epiphany was GMs and coaches realizing the most efficient per possession shots in basketball were dunks/layups, free throws and threes. Hakeem shot barely over .500 for his career, maxing out at .538 his rookie year. Shaq averaged .582 for his career and maxed out at .609, but was probably closer to .575 when his usage was higher in his prime. To score the same amount of points as Shaq's .609 2 point shooting, a perimeter shooter needs to shoot 3's at .406 average. Stephen Curryis .444 for his career, with his high at .454 for a full season. Omri Caspi shot .409 from 3 this season.
问题其实并不在于球员或他们的打法。而是现在比赛的规则，和裁判吹罚的方式已经改变了。
你不会再看到有回归“传统”大个子的局面了，除非规则自己变回去。球员没法简单地在不被长臂的后卫骚扰的情况下、按部就班慢慢地在禁区里进行老派地背打了。这并不是说大个子没法很出色。昨晚雷霆vs勇士的比赛里就展现了高度和身材的价值。然而，强队的打法动力并不会再回到单调乏味的低位球员身上。
总经理和教练们都意识到每回合最有效的投篮就是扣篮/上篮，罚球和三分。 但生涯命中率刚刚超过50%，最高一年是新秀那年的53.8%。奥尼尔生涯命中率是58.2%，最高命中率是60.9%，但他巅峰期使用率更高时可能接近57.5%。 要得到奥尼尔60.9%两分球得到的分数，外线三分命中率必须达到40.6%。 库里生涯的3分是44.4%命中率， 最高一个完整的赛季是45.4%命中率。卡西比本赛季的三分球命中率是40.9%
[–]ClippersMothershipConnection 6 points 7 hours ago
True, it sort of swings depending on the rules and who the dominant players are. It's not like spacing wasn't important back then either, I remember that Rockets team that beat the Magic bombing threes around Hakeem and when Shaq won he always got to kick it out to Horry and Fisher spotting up from 3 outside. Plus you remember with the rules in the 90s, you could molest guards out at halfcourt but with the illegal defense rule you couldn't double off the ball so it was way easier to let your big guy do work in the post.
I think what throws people off with the Warriors is that Draymond is their crunch time center but he's also short and good at dribbling and shooting. But he protects the rim like a 7 footer and is impossible to score against in the post, if this dude couldn't dribble and pass people would call him Ben Wallace.
是的，这种转换取决于规则和究竟有什么类型的统治型球员在。在以前空间也并不是不重要，我记得火箭打败魔术时，大梦身边就有很多三分球打法。而奥尼尔夺冠时，他也总是把球分到外围的定点3分投射霍里和费舍尔他们。而且记得90年代的规则是，你可以在半场就骚扰后卫，但是有非法防守规则在，你没法无球包夹，所以让你的大个子在低位打更容易些。
我觉得让人们对勇士产生偏差理解的原因在于：他们关键时刻场上打中锋的是追梦格林，他个子矮，但是能投篮也能运球，如果这家伙不能运球和传球，人们只会管他叫本华莱士。
[–][NYK]Walt Fraziergalactapotamus 226 points 13 hours ago
Awesome read, though this hurt me deep:
Yao Ming is another unique post player. I didn’t ever play against him, but he worked out with me in Houston. When he showed up for his first workout, the first thing he did was show me all of my moves, one by one. He had been studying them. Yao had a very soft touch and some of the best footwork of a big man that I’ve seen.
Not enough time, man :(
这篇文太赞了，不过这段太让我伤心了：
姚明是另一名独特的低位球员，我从没和他交手过。但他跟我在休斯顿训练过，我第一次跟他训练时，他做的第一件事就是逐一展示我的动作，一个接一个。他一直在研究我的动作。姚明的手感非常柔和，他有着我见过的史上最好之一的内线脚步。
真是没看够啊，哎
[–]Spurskwo 107 points 12 hours ago
Seriously! I think people have forgotten how skilled Yao was. It wasn't like he was just a big. He was a big with great footwork, and superb shooting skills. The dude loved basketball. He just happened to be a giant.
不黑不吹！我认为人们都忘了姚明技术有多么好。他并不只是因为身材大，他是有着伟大脚步，超一流投篮技术的大个子。这家伙爱篮球。他只是投胎到了巨人而已。
[–][DET]Richard Hamiltonmeherab 63 points 11 hours ago
He averaged 25/10 his best season. He would have been HoF on merit he if he'd been healthy
他最好的赛季场均25+10，如果保持健康的话按成绩也会是篮球名人堂成员。
[–]ThunderBandwagonWallStar206 54 points 11 hours ago
He is still an absolute lock for the HOF
即便现在的姚明也绝对是锁定篮球名人堂的。
[–][DET]Richard Hamiltonmeherab 19 points 8 hours ago
He's already in anyway, but you know what I meant. If he'd stayed healthy "should Yao make the HOF" would always have been an obvious yes
不管怎样姚明已经入选名人堂了，但你知道我的意思。如果姚明保持健康的话“姚明该入选名人堂吗？”答案显然是yes
[–]ThunderBandwagonWallStar206 25 points 8 hours ago
It always was an obvious yes. He was an 8x all star, 2x nba all second team, 3x nba all 3rd team, all rookie first team, and averaged 19, 9, 1.2, and 1.9 blocks per game for his career. He is also a CBA champ and MVP, as well as won 3 FIBA Asian Championships MVPs. He was a lock of merit and there is no debate. Should Yao make the HOF is an obvious yes and always was.
姚明无论怎样都能入选名人堂。 他8次入选NBA全明星，2次二阵，3次三阵，新秀一阵，生涯场均19+9+1.2+1.9盖帽。他还是CBA冠军和MVP，还有3次亚锦赛MVP.按成绩入选名人堂也是锁定的，没啥可辨的。姚明是否该入选篮球名人堂？显然答案永远都是yes。
----------------------------------------------------
翻译：@assholeeric @OPSP1203
----------------------------------------------------
[–]ClippersMothershipConnection 371 points 9 hours ago
The big guys with actual skills and athleticism will survive.The guys who were great centers in the past would absolutely KILL in this era. You don't think David Robinson or Hakeem would put up Anthony Davis numbers plus have actual post moves? Or a fit and motivated Shaq surrounded by the shooters we have today? That would be unfair to have him rolling off a pick & roll or going one on one down low.
It also kills me to see people act like the Warriors' Lineup Of Death lineup is totally unprecedented or see oldheads try and discredit it when the 96 Bulls were basically doing the same thing. Rodman played a lot of center with Kukoc at the 4 while Draymond is basically doing what Rodman did plus 3 point shooting (and minus some rebounding/crazy hair). Only difference is that if the 96 Bulls were around in 2016 more of Michael and Scottie's shots would have come a few feet further out behind the line.
有技术和运动能力的大个子球员都能生存下去。过去那些伟大中锋绝对在这个年代会大杀特杀。你认为真正有低位技术的大卫罗宾逊或者奥拉朱旺没法在现今打出浓眉的数据？ 一个健康体型的勤奋鲨，围绕他身边安排射手在现今会是怎样？让他们挡拆后内切或者高低位一打一不要太开挂哦。
看到有人说勇士的死亡小个阵容是前所未有、或者有老古董试图贬低他们，我就受不了，明明96年的公牛基本上也做过同样的事情。库科奇上场打4号位的时候，罗德曼经常打中锋，而追梦格林基本上就是在做罗德曼做的事情，附加能投3分的能力（再减去一些篮板能力和疯狂的头型）。 唯一的区别是如果96年的公牛放在2016年，乔丹和皮蓬的投篮会在罚球线后面更远些的距离。
[–]CavaliersSEC_North 131 points 8 hours ago
It's gonna be cyclical. I was a kid growing up with the 80s and 90s NBA, this was near the end of the golden age for classic Bigs, guys like Robinsin, Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, with Robert Parrish and Kareem on the down slope of their careers when I was super little. Back then basic offensive philosophy dictated getting the ball to your dominant big, have him take high-percentage shots all the time. Then in the late 90s and early 2000s you suddenly get future HOF PFs who can spread the court and shoot, like KG, Dirk, Duncan, etc. and emphasis spread to them. Fast forward over a decade later and this shift has been taken to the extreme as teams evolved to put up sharpshooters and take low-percentage shots through a spread court (i.e. what the Warriors and Cavs are doing now).
Pretty soon you're going to start seeing a shift back to traditional big men (providing there are enough dominant Cs available) where someone will have the "epiphany" of thinking "Wait, why are all these teams wasting their shots on low-percentage shots near the arc? Why don't we shrink the court, get the ball down to the post for some high-percentage shots, and slow down the tempo to control them?" And then we'll see teams adapting this when it eventually works.
And so it goes.
这就是个周期循环。我还小的时候是伴随着80年代和90年代的NBA长大的，接近于属于经典大个子的黄金年代的尾声，诸如罗宾逊，尤因，大梦，奥尼尔，还有帕里什和贾巴尔生涯的末期，那时候我还超级小。 那时候的进攻哲学就是把球交给有统治力的大个子，一直让他们进行更高命中率的出手。然后是90年代末期和00年代初期，突然间未来名人堂级的大前锋群出现了，他们能拉开场地空间，能投篮，比如加内特，德克，邓肯等等。重心一下转移到了他们身上。再之后又过了10年，重心变成了拥有犀利投手的那些球队，在来开的空间里进行投篮命中率更低的出手。（就是现在勇士骑士所做的那样）。
很快你就会看到再回归到传统大个子的局面（假设出现足够有统治力的中锋们），到时候人们会想：为什么要把重心放在命中率更低的3分线外呢？为什么我们不压缩场地空间、让球打到命中率更高的低位区域、降低节奏控制节奏呢？ 等到这样真的奏效时，我们会看到球队的调整的转换的。
然后再继续循环。
[–]Lakerseek711 17 points 7 hours ago
The problem isn't players or predominant styles. It's the rules of the game and the way the game is officiated that has changed.
You'll never see a shift back to the "traditional" big man unless the rules revert themselves. You simply can't play methodically and slowly in the paint with an old-fashioned big backing up the other big without him getting harassed by some long armed wing or darty guard. This isn't to say big men can't be good. Last nights OKC vs. GSW game shows how valuable height and size can be. However, the driving force of good teams won't be back to the basket plodding low post players.
The epiphany was GMs and coaches realizing the most efficient per possession shots in basketball were dunks/layups, free throws and threes. Hakeem shot barely over .500 for his career, maxing out at .538 his rookie year. Shaq averaged .582 for his career and maxed out at .609, but was probably closer to .575 when his usage was higher in his prime. To score the same amount of points as Shaq's .609 2 point shooting, a perimeter shooter needs to shoot 3's at .406 average. Stephen Curryis .444 for his career, with his high at .454 for a full season. Omri Caspi shot .409 from 3 this season.
问题其实并不在于球员或他们的打法。而是现在比赛的规则，和裁判吹罚的方式已经改变了。
你不会再看到有回归“传统”大个子的局面了，除非规则自己变回去。球员没法简单地在不被长臂的后卫骚扰的情况下、按部就班慢慢地在禁区里进行老派地背打了。这并不是说大个子没法很出色。昨晚雷霆vs勇士的比赛里就展现了高度和身材的价值。然而，强队的打法动力并不会再回到单调乏味的低位球员身上。
总经理和教练们都意识到每回合最有效的投篮就是扣篮/上篮，罚球和三分。 但生涯命中率刚刚超过50%，最高一年是新秀那年的53.8%。奥尼尔生涯命中率是58.2%，最高命中率是60.9%，但他巅峰期使用率更高时可能接近57.5%。 要得到奥尼尔60.9%两分球得到的分数，外线三分命中率必须达到40.6%。 库里生涯的3分是44.4%命中率， 最高一个完整的赛季是45.4%命中率。卡西比本赛季的三分球命中率是40.9%
[–]ClippersMothershipConnection 6 points 7 hours ago
True, it sort of swings depending on the rules and who the dominant players are. It's not like spacing wasn't important back then either, I remember that Rockets team that beat the Magic bombing threes around Hakeem and when Shaq won he always got to kick it out to Horry and Fisher spotting up from 3 outside. Plus you remember with the rules in the 90s, you could molest guards out at halfcourt but with the illegal defense rule you couldn't double off the ball so it was way easier to let your big guy do work in the post.
I think what throws people off with the Warriors is that Draymond is their crunch time center but he's also short and good at dribbling and shooting. But he protects the rim like a 7 footer and is impossible to score against in the post, if this dude couldn't dribble and pass people would call him Ben Wallace.
是的，这种转换取决于规则和究竟有什么类型的统治型球员在。在以前空间也并不是不重要，我记得火箭打败魔术时，大梦身边就有很多三分球打法。而奥尼尔夺冠时，他也总是把球分到外围的定点3分投射霍里和费舍尔他们。而且记得90年代的规则是，你可以在半场就骚扰后卫，但是有非法防守规则在，你没法无球包夹，所以让你的大个子在低位打更容易些。
我觉得让人们对勇士产生偏差理解的原因在于：他们关键时刻场上打中锋的是追梦格林，他个子矮，但是能投篮也能运球，如果这家伙不能运球和传球，人们只会管他叫本华莱士。
[–][NYK]Walt Fraziergalactapotamus 226 points 13 hours ago
Awesome read, though this hurt me deep:
Yao Ming is another unique post player. I didn’t ever play against him, but he worked out with me in Houston. When he showed up for his first workout, the first thing he did was show me all of my moves, one by one. He had been studying them. Yao had a very soft touch and some of the best footwork of a big man that I’ve seen.
Not enough time, man :(
这篇文太赞了，不过这段太让我伤心了：
姚明是另一名独特的低位球员，我从没和他交手过。但他跟我在休斯顿训练过，我第一次跟他训练时，他做的第一件事就是逐一展示我的动作，一个接一个。他一直在研究我的动作。姚明的手感非常柔和，他有着我见过的史上最好之一的内线脚步。
真是没看够啊，哎
[–]Spurskwo 107 points 12 hours ago
Seriously! I think people have forgotten how skilled Yao was. It wasn't like he was just a big. He was a big with great footwork, and superb shooting skills. The dude loved basketball. He just happened to be a giant.
不黑不吹！我认为人们都忘了姚明技术有多么好。他并不只是因为身材大，他是有着伟大脚步，超一流投篮技术的大个子。这家伙爱篮球。他只是投胎到了巨人而已。
[–][DET]Richard Hamiltonmeherab 63 points 11 hours ago
He averaged 25/10 his best season. He would have been HoF on merit he if he'd been healthy
他最好的赛季场均25+10，如果保持健康的话按成绩也会是篮球名人堂成员。
[–]ThunderBandwagonWallStar206 54 points 11 hours ago
He is still an absolute lock for the HOF
即便现在的姚明也绝对是锁定篮球名人堂的。
[–][DET]Richard Hamiltonmeherab 19 points 8 hours ago
He's already in anyway, but you know what I meant. If he'd stayed healthy "should Yao make the HOF" would always have been an obvious yes
不管怎样姚明已经入选名人堂了，但你知道我的意思。如果姚明保持健康的话“姚明该入选名人堂吗？”答案显然是yes
[–]ThunderBandwagonWallStar206 25 points 8 hours ago
It always was an obvious yes. He was an 8x all star, 2x nba all second team, 3x nba all 3rd team, all rookie first team, and averaged 19, 9, 1.2, and 1.9 blocks per game for his career. He is also a CBA champ and MVP, as well as won 3 FIBA Asian Championships MVPs. He was a lock of merit and there is no debate. Should Yao make the HOF is an obvious yes and always was.
姚明无论怎样都能入选名人堂。 他8次入选NBA全明星，2次二阵，3次三阵，新秀一阵，生涯场均19+9+1.2+1.9盖帽。他还是CBA冠军和MVP，还有3次亚锦赛MVP.按成绩入选名人堂也是锁定的，没啥可辨的。姚明是否该入选篮球名人堂？显然答案永远都是yes。
----------------------------------------------------
翻译：@assholeeric @OPSP1203
原文：https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/4ju0dz/the_philadelphia_76ers_have_won_the_2016_nba/
微信公众号：ChinaReddit，还处于成长之中~希望能够得到你们更多的改善建议
微博：虎扑美国JRs之声：http://weibo.com/u/5544594084
----------------------------------------------------
[–]ClippersMothershipConnection 371 points 9 hours ago
The big guys with actual skills and athleticism will survive.The guys who were great centers in the past would absolutely KILL in this era. You don't think David Robinson or Hakeem would put up Anthony Davis numbers plus have actual post moves? Or a fit and motivated Shaq surrounded by the shooters we have today? That would be unfair to have him rolling off a pick & roll or going one on one down low.
It also kills me to see people act like the Warriors' Lineup Of Death lineup is totally unprecedented or see oldheads try and discredit it when the 96 Bulls were basically doing the same thing. Rodman played a lot of center with Kukoc at the 4 while Draymond is basically doing what Rodman did plus 3 point shooting (and minus some rebounding/crazy hair). Only difference is that if the 96 Bulls were around in 2016 more of Michael and Scottie's shots would have come a few feet further out behind the line.
有技术和运动能力的大个子球员都能生存下去。过去那些伟大中锋绝对在这个年代会大杀特杀。你认为真正有低位技术的大卫罗宾逊或者奥拉朱旺没法在现今打出浓眉的数据？ 一个健康体型的勤奋鲨，围绕他身边安排射手在现今会是怎样？让他们挡拆后内切或者高低位一打一不要太开挂哦。
看到有人说勇士的死亡小个阵容是前所未有、或者有老古董试图贬低他们，我就受不了，明明96年的公牛基本上也做过同样的事情。库科奇上场打4号位的时候，罗德曼经常打中锋，而追梦格林基本上就是在做罗德曼做的事情，附加能投3分的能力（再减去一些篮板能力和疯狂的头型）。 唯一的区别是如果96年的公牛放在2016年，乔丹和皮蓬的投篮会在罚球线后面更远些的距离。
[–]CavaliersSEC_North 131 points 8 hours ago
It's gonna be cyclical. I was a kid growing up with the 80s and 90s NBA, this was near the end of the golden age for classic Bigs, guys like Robinsin, Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, with Robert Parrish and Kareem on the down slope of their careers when I was super little. Back then basic offensive philosophy dictated getting the ball to your dominant big, have him take high-percentage shots all the time. Then in the late 90s and early 2000s you suddenly get future HOF PFs who can spread the court and shoot, like KG, Dirk, Duncan, etc. and emphasis spread to them. Fast forward over a decade later and this shift has been taken to the extreme as teams evolved to put up sharpshooters and take low-percentage shots through a spread court (i.e. what the Warriors and Cavs are doing now).
Pretty soon you're going to start seeing a shift back to traditional big men (providing there are enough dominant Cs available) where someone will have the "epiphany" of thinking "Wait, why are all these teams wasting their shots on low-percentage shots near the arc? Why don't we shrink the court, get the ball down to the post for some high-percentage shots, and slow down the tempo to control them?" And then we'll see teams adapting this when it eventually works.
And so it goes.
这就是个周期循环。我还小的时候是伴随着80年代和90年代的NBA长大的，接近于属于经典大个子的黄金年代的尾声，诸如罗宾逊，尤因，大梦，奥尼尔，还有帕里什和贾巴尔生涯的末期，那时候我还超级小。 那时候的进攻哲学就是把球交给有统治力的大个子，一直让他们进行更高命中率的出手。然后是90年代末期和00年代初期，突然间未来名人堂级的大前锋群出现了，他们能拉开场地空间，能投篮，比如加内特，德克，邓肯等等。重心一下转移到了他们身上。再之后又过了10年，重心变成了拥有犀利投手的那些球队，在来开的空间里进行投篮命中率更低的出手。（就是现在勇士骑士所做的那样）。
很快你就会看到再回归到传统大个子的局面（假设出现足够有统治力的中锋们），到时候人们会想：为什么要把重心放在命中率更低的3分线外呢？为什么我们不压缩场地空间、让球打到命中率更高的低位区域、降低节奏控制节奏呢？ 等到这样真的奏效时，我们会看到球队的调整的转换的。
然后再继续循环。
[–]Lakerseek711 17 points 7 hours ago
The problem isn't players or predominant styles. It's the rules of the game and the way the game is officiated that has changed.
You'll never see a shift back to the "traditional" big man unless the rules revert themselves. You simply can't play methodically and slowly in the paint with an old-fashioned big backing up the other big without him getting harassed by some long armed wing or darty guard. This isn't to say big men can't be good. Last nights OKC vs. GSW game shows how valuable height and size can be. However, the driving force of good teams won't be back to the basket plodding low post players.
The epiphany was GMs and coaches realizing the most efficient per possession shots in basketball were dunks/layups, free throws and threes. Hakeem shot barely over .500 for his career, maxing out at .538 his rookie year. Shaq averaged .582 for his career and maxed out at .609, but was probably closer to .575 when his usage was higher in his prime. To score the same amount of points as Shaq's .609 2 point shooting, a perimeter shooter needs to shoot 3's at .406 average. Stephen Curryis .444 for his career, with his high at .454 for a full season. Omri Caspi shot .409 from 3 this season.
问题其实并不在于球员或他们的打法。而是现在比赛的规则，和裁判吹罚的方式已经改变了。
你不会再看到有回归“传统”大个子的局面了，除非规则自己变回去。球员没法简单地在不被长臂的后卫骚扰的情况下、按部就班慢慢地在禁区里进行老派地背打了。这并不是说大个子没法很出色。昨晚雷霆vs勇士的比赛里就展现了高度和身材的价值。然而，强队的打法动力并不会再回到单调乏味的低位球员身上。
总经理和教练们都意识到每回合最有效的投篮就是扣篮/上篮，罚球和三分。 但生涯命中率刚刚超过50%，最高一年是新秀那年的53.8%。奥尼尔生涯命中率是58.2%，最高命中率是60.9%，但他巅峰期使用率更高时可能接近57.5%。 要得到奥尼尔60.9%两分球得到的分数，外线三分命中率必须达到40.6%。 库里生涯的3分是44.4%命中率， 最高一个完整的赛季是45.4%命中率。卡西比本赛季的三分球命中率是40.9%
[–]ClippersMothershipConnection 6 points 7 hours ago
True, it sort of swings depending on the rules and who the dominant players are. It's not like spacing wasn't important back then either, I remember that Rockets team that beat the Magic bombing threes around Hakeem and when Shaq won he always got to kick it out to Horry and Fisher spotting up from 3 outside. Plus you remember with the rules in the 90s, you could molest guards out at halfcourt but with the illegal defense rule you couldn't double off the ball so it was way easier to let your big guy do work in the post.
I think what throws people off with the Warriors is that Draymond is their crunch time center but he's also short and good at dribbling and shooting. But he protects the rim like a 7 footer and is impossible to score against in the post, if this dude couldn't dribble and pass people would call him Ben Wallace.
是的，这种转换取决于规则和究竟有什么类型的统治型球员在。在以前空间也并不是不重要，我记得火箭打败魔术时，大梦身边就有很多三分球打法。而奥尼尔夺冠时，他也总是把球分到外围的定点3分投射霍里和费舍尔他们。而且记得90年代的规则是，你可以在半场就骚扰后卫，但是有非法防守规则在，你没法无球包夹，所以让你的大个子在低位打更容易些。
我觉得让人们对勇士产生偏差理解的原因在于：他们关键时刻场上打中锋的是追梦格林，他个子矮，但是能投篮也能运球，如果这家伙不能运球和传球，人们只会管他叫本华莱士。
[–][NYK]Walt Fraziergalactapotamus 226 points 13 hours ago
Awesome read, though this hurt me deep:
Yao Ming is another unique post player. I didn’t ever play against him, but he worked out with me in Houston. When he showed up for his first workout, the first thing he did was show me all of my moves, one by one. He had been studying them. Yao had a very soft touch and some of the best footwork of a big man that I’ve seen.
Not enough time, man :(
这篇文太赞了，不过这段太让我伤心了：
姚明是另一名独特的低位球员，我从没和他交手过。但他跟我在休斯顿训练过，我第一次跟他训练时，他做的第一件事就是逐一展示我的动作，一个接一个。他一直在研究我的动作。姚明的手感非常柔和，他有着我见过的史上最好之一的内线脚步。
真是没看够啊，哎
[–]Spurskwo 107 points 12 hours ago
Seriously! I think people have forgotten how skilled Yao was. It wasn't like he was just a big. He was a big with great footwork, and superb shooting skills. The dude loved basketball. He just happened to be a giant.
不黑不吹！我认为人们都忘了姚明技术有多么好。他并不只是因为身材大，他是有着伟大脚步，超一流投篮技术的大个子。这家伙爱篮球。他只是投胎到了巨人而已。
[–][DET]Richard Hamiltonmeherab 63 points 11 hours ago
He averaged 25/10 his best season. He would have been HoF on merit he if he'd been healthy
他最好的赛季场均25+10，如果保持健康的话按成绩也会是篮球名人堂成员。
[–]ThunderBandwagonWallStar206 54 points 11 hours ago
He is still an absolute lock for the HOF
即便现在的姚明也绝对是锁定篮球名人堂的。
[–][DET]Richard Hamiltonmeherab 19 points 8 hours ago
He's already in anyway, but you know what I meant. If he'd stayed healthy "should Yao make the HOF" would always have been an obvious yes
不管怎样姚明已经入选名人堂了，但你知道我的意思。如果姚明保持健康的话“姚明该入选名人堂吗？”答案显然是yes
[–]ThunderBandwagonWallStar206 25 points 8 hours ago
It always was an obvious yes. He was an 8x all star, 2x nba all second team, 3x nba all 3rd team, all rookie first team, and averaged 19, 9, 1.2, and 1.9 blocks per game for his career. He is also a CBA champ and MVP, as well as won 3 FIBA Asian Championships MVPs. He was a lock of merit and there is no debate. Should Yao make the HOF is an obvious yes and always was.
姚明无论怎样都能入选名人堂。 他8次入选NBA全明星，2次二阵，3次三阵，新秀一阵，生涯场均19+9+1.2+1.9盖帽。他还是CBA冠军和MVP，还有3次亚锦赛MVP.按成绩入选名人堂也是锁定的，没啥可辨的。姚明是否该入选篮球名人堂？显然答案永远都是yes。
----------------------------------------------------
翻译：@assholeeric @OPSP1203
----------------------------------------------------
[–]ClippersMothershipConnection 371 points 9 hours ago
The big guys with actual skills and athleticism will survive.The guys who were great centers in the past would absolutely KILL in this era. You don't think David Robinson or Hakeem would put up Anthony Davis numbers plus have actual post moves? Or a fit and motivated Shaq surrounded by the shooters we have today? That would be unfair to have him rolling off a pick & roll or going one on one down low.
It also kills me to see people act like the Warriors' Lineup Of Death lineup is totally unprecedented or see oldheads try and discredit it when the 96 Bulls were basically doing the same thing. Rodman played a lot of center with Kukoc at the 4 while Draymond is basically doing what Rodman did plus 3 point shooting (and minus some rebounding/crazy hair). Only difference is that if the 96 Bulls were around in 2016 more of Michael and Scottie's shots would have come a few feet further out behind the line.
有技术和运动能力的大个子球员都能生存下去。过去那些伟大中锋绝对在这个年代会大杀特杀。你认为真正有低位技术的大卫罗宾逊或者奥拉朱旺没法在现今打出浓眉的数据？ 一个健康体型的勤奋鲨，围绕他身边安排射手在现今会是怎样？让他们挡拆后内切或者高低位一打一不要太开挂哦。
看到有人说勇士的死亡小个阵容是前所未有、或者有老古董试图贬低他们，我就受不了，明明96年的公牛基本上也做过同样的事情。库科奇上场打4号位的时候，罗德曼经常打中锋，而追梦格林基本上就是在做罗德曼做的事情，附加能投3分的能力（再减去一些篮板能力和疯狂的头型）。 唯一的区别是如果96年的公牛放在2016年，乔丹和皮蓬的投篮会在罚球线后面更远些的距离。
[–]CavaliersSEC_North 131 points 8 hours ago
It's gonna be cyclical. I was a kid growing up with the 80s and 90s NBA, this was near the end of the golden age for classic Bigs, guys like Robinsin, Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, with Robert Parrish and Kareem on the down slope of their careers when I was super little. Back then basic offensive philosophy dictated getting the ball to your dominant big, have him take high-percentage shots all the time. Then in the late 90s and early 2000s you suddenly get future HOF PFs who can spread the court and shoot, like KG, Dirk, Duncan, etc. and emphasis spread to them. Fast forward over a decade later and this shift has been taken to the extreme as teams evolved to put up sharpshooters and take low-percentage shots through a spread court (i.e. what the Warriors and Cavs are doing now).
Pretty soon you're going to start seeing a shift back to traditional big men (providing there are enough dominant Cs available) where someone will have the "epiphany" of thinking "Wait, why are all these teams wasting their shots on low-percentage shots near the arc? Why don't we shrink the court, get the ball down to the post for some high-percentage shots, and slow down the tempo to control them?" And then we'll see teams adapting this when it eventually works.
And so it goes.
这就是个周期循环。我还小的时候是伴随着80年代和90年代的NBA长大的，接近于属于经典大个子的黄金年代的尾声，诸如罗宾逊，尤因，大梦，奥尼尔，还有帕里什和贾巴尔生涯的末期，那时候我还超级小。 那时候的进攻哲学就是把球交给有统治力的大个子，一直让他们进行更高命中率的出手。然后是90年代末期和00年代初期，突然间未来名人堂级的大前锋群出现了，他们能拉开场地空间，能投篮，比如加内特，德克，邓肯等等。重心一下转移到了他们身上。再之后又过了10年，重心变成了拥有犀利投手的那些球队，在来开的空间里进行投篮命中率更低的出手。（就是现在勇士骑士所做的那样）。
很快你就会看到再回归到传统大个子的局面（假设出现足够有统治力的中锋们），到时候人们会想：为什么要把重心放在命中率更低的3分线外呢？为什么我们不压缩场地空间、让球打到命中率更高的低位区域、降低节奏控制节奏呢？ 等到这样真的奏效时，我们会看到球队的调整的转换的。
然后再继续循环。
[–]Lakerseek711 17 points 7 hours ago
The problem isn't players or predominant styles. It's the rules of the game and the way the game is officiated that has changed.
You'll never see a shift back to the "traditional" big man unless the rules revert themselves. You simply can't play methodically and slowly in the paint with an old-fashioned big backing up the other big without him getting harassed by some long armed wing or darty guard. This isn't to say big men can't be good. Last nights OKC vs. GSW game shows how valuable height and size can be. However, the driving force of good teams won't be back to the basket plodding low post players.
The epiphany was GMs and coaches realizing the most efficient per possession shots in basketball were dunks/layups, free throws and threes. Hakeem shot barely over .500 for his career, maxing out at .538 his rookie year. Shaq averaged .582 for his career and maxed out at .609, but was probably closer to .575 when his usage was higher in his prime. To score the same amount of points as Shaq's .609 2 point shooting, a perimeter shooter needs to shoot 3's at .406 average. Stephen Curryis .444 for his career, with his high at .454 for a full season. Omri Caspi shot .409 from 3 this season.
问题其实并不在于球员或他们的打法。而是现在比赛的规则，和裁判吹罚的方式已经改变了。
你不会再看到有回归“传统”大个子的局面了，除非规则自己变回去。球员没法简单地在不被长臂的后卫骚扰的情况下、按部就班慢慢地在禁区里进行老派地背打了。这并不是说大个子没法很出色。昨晚雷霆vs勇士的比赛里就展现了高度和身材的价值。然而，强队的打法动力并不会再回到单调乏味的低位球员身上。
总经理和教练们都意识到每回合最有效的投篮就是扣篮/上篮，罚球和三分。 但生涯命中率刚刚超过50%，最高一年是新秀那年的53.8%。奥尼尔生涯命中率是58.2%，最高命中率是60.9%，但他巅峰期使用率更高时可能接近57.5%。 要得到奥尼尔60.9%两分球得到的分数，外线三分命中率必须达到40.6%。 库里生涯的3分是44.4%命中率， 最高一个完整的赛季是45.4%命中率。卡西比本赛季的三分球命中率是40.9%
[–]ClippersMothershipConnection 6 points 7 hours ago
True, it sort of swings depending on the rules and who the dominant players are. It's not like spacing wasn't important back then either, I remember that Rockets team that beat the Magic bombing threes around Hakeem and when Shaq won he always got to kick it out to Horry and Fisher spotting up from 3 outside. Plus you remember with the rules in the 90s, you could molest guards out at halfcourt but with the illegal defense rule you couldn't double off the ball so it was way easier to let your big guy do work in the post.
I think what throws people off with the Warriors is that Draymond is their crunch time center but he's also short and good at dribbling and shooting. But he protects the rim like a 7 footer and is impossible to score against in the post, if this dude couldn't dribble and pass people would call him Ben Wallace.
是的，这种转换取决于规则和究竟有什么类型的统治型球员在。在以前空间也并不是不重要，我记得火箭打败魔术时，大梦身边就有很多三分球打法。而奥尼尔夺冠时，他也总是把球分到外围的定点3分投射霍里和费舍尔他们。而且记得90年代的规则是，你可以在半场就骚扰后卫，但是有非法防守规则在，你没法无球包夹，所以让你的大个子在低位打更容易些。
我觉得让人们对勇士产生偏差理解的原因在于：他们关键时刻场上打中锋的是追梦格林，他个子矮，但是能投篮也能运球，如果这家伙不能运球和传球，人们只会管他叫本华莱士。
[–][NYK]Walt Fraziergalactapotamus 226 points 13 hours ago
Awesome read, though this hurt me deep:
Yao Ming is another unique post player. I didn’t ever play against him, but he worked out with me in Houston. When he showed up for his first workout, the first thing he did was show me all of my moves, one by one. He had been studying them. Yao had a very soft touch and some of the best footwork of a big man that I’ve seen.
Not enough time, man :(
这篇文太赞了，不过这段太让我伤心了：
姚明是另一名独特的低位球员，我从没和他交手过。但他跟我在休斯顿训练过，我第一次跟他训练时，他做的第一件事就是逐一展示我的动作，一个接一个。他一直在研究我的动作。姚明的手感非常柔和，他有着我见过的史上最好之一的内线脚步。
真是没看够啊，哎
[–]Spurskwo 107 points 12 hours ago
Seriously! I think people have forgotten how skilled Yao was. It wasn't like he was just a big. He was a big with great footwork, and superb shooting skills. The dude loved basketball. He just happened to be a giant.
不黑不吹！我认为人们都忘了姚明技术有多么好。他并不只是因为身材大，他是有着伟大脚步，超一流投篮技术的大个子。这家伙爱篮球。他只是投胎到了巨人而已。
[–][DET]Richard Hamiltonmeherab 63 points 11 hours ago
He averaged 25/10 his best season. He would have been HoF on merit he if he'd been healthy
他最好的赛季场均25+10，如果保持健康的话按成绩也会是篮球名人堂成员。
[–]ThunderBandwagonWallStar206 54 points 11 hours ago
He is still an absolute lock for the HOF
即便现在的姚明也绝对是锁定篮球名人堂的。
[–][DET]Richard Hamiltonmeherab 19 points 8 hours ago
He's already in anyway, but you know what I meant. If he'd stayed healthy "should Yao make the HOF" would always have been an obvious yes
不管怎样姚明已经入选名人堂了，但你知道我的意思。如果姚明保持健康的话“姚明该入选名人堂吗？”答案显然是yes
[–]ThunderBandwagonWallStar206 25 points 8 hours ago
It always was an obvious yes. He was an 8x all star, 2x nba all second team, 3x nba all 3rd team, all rookie first team, and averaged 19, 9, 1.2, and 1.9 blocks per game for his career. He is also a CBA champ and MVP, as well as won 3 FIBA Asian Championships MVPs. He was a lock of merit and there is no debate. Should Yao make the HOF is an obvious yes and always was.
姚明无论怎样都能入选名人堂。 他8次入选NBA全明星，2次二阵，3次三阵，新秀一阵，生涯场均19+9+1.2+1.9盖帽。他还是CBA冠军和MVP，还有3次亚锦赛MVP.按成绩入选名人堂也是锁定的，没啥可辨的。姚明是否该入选篮球名人堂？显然答案永远都是yes。
----------------------------------------------------
翻译：@assholeeric @OPSP1203
原文：https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/4ju0dz/the_philadelphia_76ers_have_won_the_2016_nba/
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